Dwarfs, What can be done?

[Meals]

I love dwarves... But everybody knew that!

The book itself is not the problem, but they have suffered from the 8th fad of doing things in excess more than others. In my opinion it can be fun....

- the anvil brings you speed and something to help with skirmishers etc... Noone takes it because it's a risk, or they use it in a gunline which is a massive underuse of it.

- units don't have to be 30 men strong... I used small units of 14 hammerers run 7 wide at CC last year and they were ace. Its the units of 30 + men which are the problem. Small units of thunderers, quarrellers, rangers, miners and slayers are all ace - but you never see them.

- there's no imagination in people's lists, just the unkillable lord on shields in huge units of GW guys... You can make total killing machines in the dwarf book, slayer characters can run on their own, strollaz rune on the bsb can get you right up the table (so good with the anvil!)

- gyrocopters are ace!

It's the players and builds, not the army!!!!

I agree with you Steve, you can make really good combat Dwarves. But as far as I can tell, Dwarf players don't have any encouragement to do so, over playing Warmachine Castles, I'm not sure if its just that they might actually have to use some skill then, but thats probably a bit harsh on the players. So we need to give them some encouragement, I'd suggest by nerfing the Warmachines into the ground, not just by limiting them in numbers.

As much as I hate to say it, Jacks thoughts on scenarios also make sense, if they have to leave the deployment zone, they kinda have to go towards Combat Dwarves. Just need some thought on better and more interesting scenarios, if you can get rid of the Diagonal deployment and the building part of Watchtower I could handle playing them again.

Actually, an interesting one would be having 3 "objectives" along the middle of the table about 30" apart. That would really challenge alot of the other filthy points denial builds too. (lets see Jon Brooms Ogres deal with that :D)


I love Dan's new Anvil spell btw. Thats just a brilliant idea.

[fatolaf]

Some good ideas Buddy, will absorb some into OG Comp...

Starting with!

Organ gun 2nd misfire roll is still a fecking misfire

[jackhoneysett]

Just need some thought on better and more interesting scenarios, if you can get rid of the Diagonal deployment and the building part of Watchtower I could handle playing them again.

Actually, an interesting one would be having 3 "objectives" along the middle of the table about 30" apart. That would really challenge alot of the other filthy points denial builds too. (lets see Jon Brooms Ogres deal with that :D)

I like that idea - when I said scenarios I did really mean objective-based ones with different scoring systems, rather than just 'screw-up your deployment, but otherwise play the game as normal' scenarios, which still make castling an option.

[Steve H]

There is a warmachine/hordes scenario that would be ace in wfb for these reasons.... 3 objectives across the centre of the table, spread out wide, which have to be claimed. On a turn in the middle of the game a random one disappears and the other two are scored on at the end.

Really stops people deploying in one corner, and you need some serious tactics and flexibility if the one you were setting up for disappears!!! :)

[khaosgoblin]

I may well look at scenarios for Xmas, not the GW ones as they are all pants

But scenarios that encourage aggresion & movement would be interesting.

The old Fog of War scenario where you can only see a random distance (4D6) could be a good one.

Also the breakthrough scenario where you score points by getting of the other table edge, as that allows war amchines to defend, but you need some combat to get of the table.

[Crompton]

I disagree with Steve saying its not the book's fault. Dwarf hammer units are all great weapons and the only multiple attack troops are slayers. This means its very hard to get a small unit that is going to be able to do enough damage to not break. The other problem being the speed of a Dwarf army. If I go combat and no war machines, (like I will one day be able to do when I eventually go to a tempest) then opponents can just avoid all my units or at best make me wait until turn 3 to charge and more likely turns 4 or 5.

In 7th I took units of 10 slayers, 10 thunderers, small units of miners, iron breakers and up to 2 Gyrocopters. In 8th, apart from a few practise games all those units have been dumped by me as they just aren't as competitive (although I can still see a very effective use for a Gyro).

Plus, I enjoy playing my Dwarfs. Most of the guys who play Dwarfs nowadays do. We know we're not going to win tournaments but that doesn't stop us trying or wanting to be competitive. Which is the real nub of the problem, we could make fun lists for our opponents but then we are just taking a hiding for nothing.

[maelzch]

Imo, scenarios are a bigger answer to many issues than extreme restrictions on a book. However, this does require a good bit of thought into the scenario

[Crompton]

Scenarios can be a good thing when they are a bit more fun than the ones from the book. Plus things such as secondary/secret missions can work well too.

[Undead Dan]

Help us out here mate, not many of us play Dwarfs, so instead of us moaning at Dwarfs for the shitbags they are (sorry, my armies at the mo are goblins, skaven and high elves, so I have to hate you ), tell us what it is you want, in order to take a more pro-active army that makes for a more game that's gonna make the game a bit more of a two-way street!

Do you need more movement (Vanguards/reform-marching, BSB is strollaz for free etc.), or to be forced to move (objectives)? Does magic keep you from engaging, or do you laugh at it? Are your warmachine combos just no-brainers, is there a way to make things like the Flame Cannon a viable choice? Will stuff like fog of war help guide you to play combat armies, or just make you not bother at all? Do you want more combat potential, and if so, in what way? Will rulebook magic items help? Great eagles for the army? Fimir allies?

Don't take those as a bunch of questions to be answered, just give us an idea of what it is you would like to see that would help you take armies that both you enjoy and your opponents will too, that'll give you a fair chance to smash 'em :)

[noahtonkin]

Nothing.............They just sit there, occasionally re-rolling a misfire and watching you pick men off each turn....

I believe what you actually said was "right, shooting at that. Reroll, reroll, reroll, reroll, reroll, reroll, reroll, dead, take it off"

how about banning rune of reroll or what ever it's called.
or only 1 per army if you really want to be nice.
maybe max 1 of each type of warmachine?