Wandsworth Waargh IX - Get Comped! - Aug 6/7th

[lagar312]

Coach will count as 2 Ethereal units (cap is 0-2), not allowing master + periapt, a guaranteed +3PD combined with the +1 DD and the coach effect is hideous..

I dislike intensely the fact it carries on sucking after it has become ethereal, a crazy rule..

Why not just limit or prevent the coach taking opponents Power dice!

That was it'd be a calculated risk running it and should prevent turn two etheral!

Seems like a good trade off to me!

[noahtonkin]

If we look at the top 6, we see they are all DE, DoC and LM..

This should read "nearly all of the top 6"

I want my moment of glory! (they don't come around too often!)

[Undead Dan]

Great tournament (Manticores are rubbish- at least Jack had a Dark Elf on top of his!).

For comp...

Some thoughts I had were..

DE: Marks list showed that even with the Mindrazor comp, the big corsair unit build (with 2 assasins) is still very hard to deal with, needs addressing

My thought was a cap on frenzied units to 0-1, meaning you either have that unit or the cauldron, not both..

Didn't see Mark's list, but even losing 20-0 to Jack's, there was nothing too nasty in the army. Certainly, it wasn't as bum as the Empire army I played the other weekend which fits into OG comp. Seems a shame to make Cauldron of Blood and Witch Elves mutually exclusive, but I guess the Mindrazor army is still too nasty.

Suggestion: a unit with the Sea Serpent banner may not be joined by any characters, including assassins.

DoC: Greater Daemons, still too hard to deal with, maybe take a few of the toys away from each one...

Yeah, they're still pretty terrifying, but again hard to comp. Perhaps something as simple as forbidding all Daemonic Icons in the entire game- Plaguebearer blocks become less killy, Bloodletters stop charging average 16", etc. But I don't much like that. Perhaps it's time to go back to the old mono-god comp: for each Daemonic character, you must have one core unit of that god. So, if someone wants to bring a Bloodthirster, they have to have a unit of Bloodletters without a Herald in it...

VC: The Coach combined with Master of the Black Arts + Periapt = Total magic dominace against all but the strongest books and lists..

lvl 2 Vamps knowing the whole lore (ie shadows) will suffer the same fate as Doc heralds , only 2 spells now, not the whole lore

Coach will count as 2 Ethereal units (cap is 0-2), not allowing master + periapt, a guaranteed +3PD combined with the +1 DD and the coach effect is hideous..

I dislike intensely the fact it carries on sucking after it has become ethereal, a crazy rule..

Forbidden Lore's a tough one to comp like that as it makes it essentially useless on a level 1. I'd keep it as-is. Maybe allow the Black Coach to suck 1 power dice per magic level on the casting side's table, limiting it severely. I'd probably remove the rule about it sucking dice after getting the 6th upgrade, although of course it does still hamper the VC player just as badly.

Buildings: Open to so much abuse, the rules need fixing ie. leaving the building, set levels for shooting, combats staying locked in, again any ideas welcome as I personally like buildings and want to see more town based boards, but not till the rules are fixed...

Would love some good houserules for buildings... combats continuing and units not bouncing off if the attacker wins the round of combat would be a very good start; if the assaulting unit is charged in the next player's turn while still locked in, it means the assault stops and the units fight each other instead; that already increases the tactical opportunities by about 1000%...

Other comp stuff...  well, all I can think of is that the Tomb Kings should be allowed the Hierotitan and Casket together. Also maybe look into separating VPs for monsters and characters. Even though this doesn't help crappy Manticores and Griffons, it does stop other nastier combos like Plague Furnaces/War Altars denying points...

[fatolaf]

Some excellent points Dan, and I will be using alot of it..

For TK, I think I panicked too much about the Titan / Casket combo, as shown by my games, that many armies have the toys to shut down a TK magic phase quite easily, which then leads to dead TK...

The combo of the Titan and Casket means there is no room for the Necro Sphinx and a SSC, both vital tools for the army, so it comps itself really..

The restriction will be lifted but not for Sphinxes...

The coach looks like a simple outright ban will sort it rather than complex rules rewrites, it's simply too powerful IMO....

[ant]

I love the mono-god idea for a comp on greater deamons. if you want a GD you need a core unit of that god with no herald . It also stops the annoying (although less broken) Tzeentch herald running about in flamers too.

DEs are difficult because everything in the book is too good really. I guess there's always the simple option - ban mindrazor.

TKs should be allowed casket and Heiro I think. Not sure on only 2 sphynxes tho. I don't think 3 would really be all that bad. Only having 5 wounds makes them pretty vulnerable really. Not that I'm bothered, don't think I'll ever want to use 3.

On the coach, rolling for all the pool dice is what does it. change it to 2, +1 for each wizard within 6" (pretty much as it was in 7th) and it'll be fine I think.

[Cyberactivity]

DE comp:

Just ban DE's from taking Lore of Shadow. Lore of Fire, Death and Dark are still great lores.

Make Lord Level Caster and CoB mutally exclusive.

0-1 frenzy units (not including frenzied mount for character - Manticore is fun).

Simple.

DoC Comp:

DoC - bring back true core rule. Core unit of god unlocks one unit of Special, Rare, and character choice for them to bring. That means that to take a GD you have to bring a unit without hearld. Will end up with more "themed" lists as to get the GD and Herald of that god your bringing 2 of the same core choice.

[Meals]

DoC Comp:

DoC - bring back true core rule. Core unit of god unlocks one unit of Special, Rare, and character choice for them to bring. That means that to take a GD you have to bring a unit without hearld. Will end up with more "themed" lists as to get the GD and Herald of that god your bringing 2 of the same core choice.

Not sure how this helps at all, really?

It just adds a 120 point tax onto the Khorne (if you are running a Thirster) and Tzeentch Heralds and 10 Letters could be helpful anyway, redirecting etc while killing stuff, still 10 KB attacks...), and 10 Horrors is a Flickering Fire, again not really a bad thing.

I think the reason GDs are so good is that all their good counters have been banned or capped by the comp...

[Cyberactivity]

120 pts for a redirector is quite a hefty price tage to be honest.

I don't see GD's as that much of an issue. They are a bucket of vp's for the opponent is they get killed. Maybe ban lore of life with a GD list so you can't heal them?

[fatolaf]

I don't see GD's as that much of an issue.

Bloodthirster is still a nails choice when combined with the other units, I dont wat to ban them because they are more vulnerable in 8th Ed, I just want to take away a few of the toys, ie constant re-rolls for Billy

Keep the ideas coming in chaps, all comments are helpful

[Undead Dan]

Yeah I'm not in favour of outright bans of actual models, if people have 'em, they should be able to use 'em!

Here's another idea for Black Coach: it only rolls the highest of the 2 magic dice rolled for that turn, rather than both (and no additions). For example, a High Elf player rolls 6-3 for magic dice, so the Coach gets to try and suck up 6 of them.

True core stuff for Daemons is good, whether you want to go as far as to say one core unit unlocking one character/special/rare is up to you- but it'd be a handy way of stopping the rampant Fiends that are all over Daemon armies as well.

On magic, I think I'd also simplify it further and include channels in the extra dice generated...