Planet OG Comp

[fatolaf]

But...but...all foot guard is horrible. Have you ever faced armies consisting of only 50 man squads with a single commissar (for ld10 stubborn, and he can't be picked out). Just blazing away with 150 shots a turn? You can kill pretty much any unit in 40k with 150 shots...

Oh I agree, Toby had 2 such units at Planet OG 2, was horrible.

IG is such a problem book as its open to so much abuse...

I think I am leaning to some very basic general comp, with a few race specific bits.
And then we can learn from there, WIP comp for the next few events..

Timmy comp in place of course to stop any rock hard lists getting in....

[badusernametag]

I'd like to think I've never abused the IG codex!? However it is a good book and can be exploited as the many 1-3 squadron options virtually DEMAND spam.

0-1 on Hydras is a little short sighted. You can still take 3 Exterminators which are frankly much better. Hydras only become silly when you've got multiple squadrons. Same with Vendettas etc.

My general feeling is that the comp you had for the league is too restrictive for 1500 point games. And it nerfs some armies badly. IE only one russ for IG? Can Orks even field 1500 points with only two Fast attack etc?

In fact I think general comp may be too broad to work for all the multiple problems faced with all armies. I see why some are against the idea generally, as it can stop the creativity of army building and stop the fun. The thing I like most about these events is that OG is trying to encourage more, fun, balanced list/army building for non-math hammer, cheese games. I personally love this as you see different lists and the non-optimised options taken. The problem here is that EVERY event someone has arrived with a tournament, spam list and an attitude that seems to clash with OG 'spirit'. Some of us are comping ourselves, which erks a little when facing those 10 missile launchers...

Having said this I make my own lists and flat out reject some of the 'best' options in any game of 40k I play. This includes Starsmash and if went to the Indie GT.

Maybe if many of your players are against comp go for some very basic rules but generally stick to Timmy comp and Encouraging the spirit of what you're trying to do? I think those that are saying people should take what they want are maybe missing the point of what Ol is trying to do? For that you go to the Indie GT, or a Warlords event. I'm happy to play in those kind of events but like the variety of games where maybe fun comes before VICTORY AT ALL COSTS 

I would think something like this is fair but not too restrictive:

*+25% points cost for Special Characters

*No duplication outside of Troops

*You must fill fast attack, elites and heavy support before you take another, then have two in each before you take a third.

*Must take one foot unit for each in a transport (some races can get around this one btw)

This isn't too restrictive really but stops spam and encourages more balanced lists. The reason I don't think special characters should be banned altogether is that some armies (Orks, Space marine bikes, DE etc) can unlock builds with their regular HQ choices, while some are only possible through special characters (the 'wing' lists etc) and these builds can be quite fun. I'm not massively a fan of special characters but they have their place.

Thats my two-pence worth.

I think ultimately if everyone is on the same page about the spirit of the event it'd all be fine without comp. But that doesn't seem possible at the moment?

[badusernametag]

I think the FNP usage of one unit/turn may need to be ditched. 10 Wyches or 10 Blood Angels get the benefit for a turn, but a 30-man Mob of Orks with a Pain Boy get the same benefit for a greater return.

At 1500pts, it also means a savvy opponent can "play the system" knowing their oppo probably has to decide early in the turn which of several potential units can use FNP.

Also, the league comp was there to create balance and fun for players of all types and experience, so that everyone could take part. Comp for a tourney, friendly or otherwise, needs to reflect the event it's designed for.

I also agree with Tom - Valks, Razorwings, Stormravens make the game interesting and offer greater variety. You could cap the selection at 0-1, rather than removing them entirely. At 200pts before upgrades, a SR for example almost comps itself for the investment at 1500 (flyer + up to 2 other units).

I agree with this almost entirely. Restricting feel no pain is weird and smacks of re-writting the rules tbh.

Also I thought that the Planet OG events were also designed to " create balance and fun for players of all types and experience, so that everyone could take part"? Or was I missing something?

Can a tourney not be fun but still competitive?

Comp can encourage good players to play better. Thats one of the reasons I try to field CSM armies or all artillery guard. To challenge myself. A good player isn't challenged playing a leaf blower, or spam venoms/ravagers. If everyone just has these lists, it comes down to the luck of the dice and arguing over an inch. Which is dull no?

[badusernametag]

I have made some change already to the comp, but I am not going to go straight out no comp, because then we lose the diversity we have been getting of varied races, new players etc.

We will only start attracting a 'certain' type of player coming to 'chump bash' and that is not my aim.
Also I want to attract new players to the game, along the likes of Monk, me, and Ash etc who yes might take hard armies but are not experienced with them (that balances itself out IMO)..

I want to have some ordinary (ish) missions but I do not as a result want to see the usual leaf blower IG lists, venom spam DE etc...

Lets look at the comp at a 1500pt mission level and get some sensible simple restrictions (of which some armies will be exempt, ie Tau and transports)


And any ideas for the race comp, do people agree for starters about my long fang cap?

Dude, it really sounds like you just need to Timmy comp lists, with a very knowledgeable board of cheese judges. Then your fun regulars keep their creativity but you phase out the cheesy spam etc.

Your point about new players is a good one. I played two very similar SW lists at OGIII, tabled one and had to conceed against the other (though your wacky mission killing half my army helped  ). This was down to the experience of the players. and is a hard thing to balance with comp...

[badusernametag]

I don't get your point about people coming to 'chump bash'. If you go to a no comp tourney and take a soft as list, I don't have any sympathy for you at all. And Besides the good players chump bash at comped tourneys too they just do it with slightly different tools.... See ben curry

To me this smacks of missing the point of what Ol is trying to do. Just saying.

Do you have sympathy for the rankings idiot I spank off the table with my 'soft as' list??

[Meals]

No, I don't. If you can take a soft as list to a no comp tourney and win then all power to you...

[fatolaf]

Dude, it really sounds like you just need to Timmy comp lists, with a very knowledgeable board of cheese judges. Then your fun regulars keep their creativity but you phase out the cheesy spam etc.

Seems the best bet to be honest, but I do like your basic comp ideas, which will be used..

But Special characters will still be a no no.....

[badusernametag]

Seems the best bet to be honest, but I do like your basic comp ideas, which will be used..

But Special characters will still be a no no.....

It's an awful shame i'll have to use the Grey Knights codex to field my Imperial Fists first company at OG V (especially as it doesn't really make sense fluff wise), but as that's the only way I can do it without special characters I guess I'll have to...

Storm shields 'counts as' storm bolters ok yeah?

ps. not my comp ideas, just a straightforward version of what everyone else is saying.

[Meals]

*cough* Deathwing *cough* ;) surely Ol can allow belial who is worse than pretty much every space marine character in history...

[Tom Loyn]

I have to say, one very simple comp you can do is saying 'no squadrons' for guard. Means they can take 3 hydras...but no hellhounds, and 3 exterminators, but no other russes. Depends what other comp you're doing tbh. If you're changing the force organisation chart then won't work so well.