South Coast GT - 16th/17th of April 2011

[Dave]

Pff what advantage can you gain from that, you'd fail all your leadership tests using them!

What's his nickname again... 'the gateway king'

[Chris Legg]

As an aside, I know the player involved at SCGT & do not for one minute believe he intentionally used bent dice, he like a lot of players has a large box of dice picked up over the years. I myself discovered a few dice that had the 2 replaced by a second 3 which is a fairly subtle cheat, no idea where I picked them up but after that I use all one type & only get them from one source.

Mark

The problem with it though is that according to his opponent- Tom Hall- the dice in question was only used twice- once to roll Gateway and the second time to roll a 6 on thunderstomp when there were only 6 Black Guard left. The remainder of the time it was not in his dice pile, it was in his dice bag.

What annoyed Tom more than anything (aside from it being the second time someone has used loaded dice against him) was that Matt tried to hide it when Tom asked to look at it- trying to swap it with another dice in his hand. Tom is a CID copper from central Manchester and is used to people doing this all the time with drugs and he called Matt on it. That is not the action of an innocent person.

[Stomm]

I've only ever used the small chessex dice over the last ten years or so, excepting scatter and misfire dice of course.

I usually have two sets in use for each game, one for my rolls and one to use as wound markets, etc...

[khaosgoblin]

The problem with it though is that according to his opponent- Tom Hall- the dice in question was only used twice- once to roll Gateway and the second time to roll a 6 on thunderstomp when there were only 6 Black Guard left. The remainder of the time it was not in his dice pile, it was in his dice bag.
What annoyed Tom more than anything (aside from it being the second time someone has used loaded dice against him) was that Matt tried to hide it when Tom asked to look at it- trying to swap it with another dice in his hand. Tom is a CID copper from central Manchester and is used to people doing this all the time with drugs and he called Matt on it. That is not the action of an innocent person.

I am very saddend to hear that Chris, I have played Matt numerous times & have never had reason to question him, but was obviously not playing in the game or observing (the account given above is certainly contrary to the one I recieved). This is a very sad state of affairs & may well to some changes at events. I for one shall in future offer my dice to my opponent to use & make sure I just pick a random dice from a pile for important rolls. I suppose the fairest way is just a pool of dice in the middle that both players use.

Mark

[Stomm]

As an aside, many, many years ago as an exercise bourne of teenage boredom (like I said, many, many years ago) I tried fix a GW dice so that it always came up with sixes. The method used was to increase the surface area of the 1 side by filing it down past the bevelled corners, flattening that side somewhat. Not only did it not really work, certainly not to any reliable degree, but it made the dice look seriously odd.

Needless to say I never used this dice in any game, not even Monopoly with my brother... ;)


And on the subject of fair dice rolling. Casino dice only work when bounced off a surface, otherwise it is far too easy to get the roll that you wish from them as they have predictable rolling qualities. So unless your opponent is using a special dice rolling tray, the use of casino dice is dubious at best, basically the sharp corners and edges don't give the dice proper random rolling qualities.

[fatolaf]

I am very saddend to hear that Chris, I have played Matt numerous times & have never had reason to question him, but was obviously not playing in the game or observing (the account given above is certainly contrary to the one I recieved).

Well to be fair Mark, it would be wouldn't it as he has not admitted knowing doing it

I for one shall in future offer my dice to my opponent to use & make sure I just pick a random dice from a pile for important rolls. I suppose the fairest way is just a pool of dice in the middle that both players use

And this is what makes me so ******* angry about this, that the actions of one cheat will know sow seeds of doubt into so many players. You have been playing as long as me mate and the fact that we will know worry in the future about stuff like this really really saddens me.
He has caused a lot of damage...

Also some of last years opponents are now coming out questioning his 'great dice'..

@phoenixlaw.... Please confirm at what point the rogue 'loaded' dice were identified?

People travel a long way for these tourneys, I think u need to answer that question.

Remember you gatewayed off my vc lord and skeleton bunker on your first attempt at south coast 2010. I believe you had other successful first time gateway attempts that weekend? I talking about removing units completely.

_________________
Alex Read

I was the 4th opponent who also had his lord Gatewayed off first turn, 4S 12 hits.
I cant remember how he rolled the dice or anything, but the fact he has been so 'lucky' with this spell for over a year, does make you think the worst in light of recent events..

I have PM'd Alex with my thoughts, a sort of Gateway Victim support group...

[khaosgoblin]

Hi Ol, youre right in that this incident is very damaging for the game, especially in 8th edition where so many players play the no brainer six dice spell for the win tactics.
It will make all of us look again at players who use this "double six FTW" mentality as in reality this will rarely win games.

This issue will certainly continue to be a focal point for some time. 

Sadly I have always been aware that cheating goes on & over the years have had to challenge players on various things, sometimes its a simple error & that is always to be expected.

Mark

[Viruk]

First off what a great tournament. Certainly the best tournament I've ever been to.

Had some 5 amazing games and unfortunately one slightly annoying game (Game was good but my oppenent kept on complaining and not in a fun way).

Won 5 and lost one game all weekend and that was to Chris Legg's Dameons. Mistake on my part otherwise probably would have been a draw/minor win to me. But great game and will get my reveneg hopefully one day

As to the dice issue. I have played Matt Howley twice. And he is great fun to play against and he knows what he is doing with his army. Unfortuantely if what I read above is true from Tom Hall then it truly doesnt look great for Matt as if that is true it's almost certain he knew the dice were dodgy.

Do'nt think other people should be banned to bring their own dice though. Sharing dice seems like a better solution if one is required at all.

[fatolaf]

Sadly I have always been aware that cheating goes on & over the years have had to challenge players on various things, sometimes its a simple error & that is always to be expected.

Which is what I like so much about 8th, pre-measuring and random charges, rules out a lot of the cheating that happened in 7th.
Making this even worse..

I have played Matt Howley twice. And he is great fun to play against and he knows what he is doing with his army.

I found him to be different, very cocky, very gamey and (with the benefit of hindsight) too sure he was going to win.
First turn gateway hard to stomach as it is (when you lose a 1K unit in one go) and now with the relevations of last Wknd, makes me want to puke...

Unfortunately if what I read above is true from Tom Hall then it truly doesn't look great for Matt as if that is true it's almost certain he knew the dice were dodgy.

Of course he knew, IMO he should have been totally honest and admitted it, instead of this bullsh*t excuse he is coming out with.

Don't think other people should be banned to bring their own dice though. Sharing dice seems like a better solution if one is required at all.

Its got nothing to do with what dice you use (except  for casino dice), its more about , if you are caught cheating, you are banned, just like in any other sport or similar activity.
Imagine if he had been caught at a casino, he would not be typing any lame excuses for a while.

And whilst some people could argue this has nothing to do with winning money etc and there fore not as bad. It is not the case, we spend hundreds of pounds going to these events, to play fun, fair games of WFB and catch up with friends. We want our monies worth, what we don't want is a game against any cheats (dice, slow play, made up rules etc) or moody sods, who have the capacity through their own arrogance or WAAC greed ruin your wknd...

[Nick]

Really sorry to read about suggestions of hooky dice. I know it's something we all joke about, 'bloody unseen lurker dice' etc, but when it appears actually to have happened, it really is damaging to peoples' willingness to invest time and money in tournaments.

I only know of this definitely happening once. At CGC about 2 years ago a club regular who was known for being a bit WAAC but pleasant enough went to a tournament at Tolworth First Founding (Octoberfest I think). He had a Marines all-Terminator army (ie for the WFB-ites everything in the list had an unmodifiable 2+ armour save). After a few games where he seemed inexplicably to be tabling his opponents without losing a model, he came up against a mate of mine called Filippo from his own team and did the same thing. Fortunately Filippo knew what he was like, so as soon as he reached into the bag for his 'armour save dice' Filippo just picked it up oiff the table and stuck his hand in the air for a judge. Surprise, surprise, it had two 2s and no 1.

Being 'the club with that guy who cheated' stuck with us as a club for a long time, even though it was one of us who dobbed him in and we had good ties with the Tolworth guys.