Regarding Retribution 2010‏ Basingstoke 1 day WFB

[Cyberactivity]

Having played 3 8th Ed tournies now, I can say the scenarios are fine for 8th Ed, actually stops the same lists from dominating as you have to be good at various things now..

I find it funny Gartn that you are worried as a Doc player, you will be fine at this, there is no weakness to your army in 8th, even shooting you has got harder...

That's an interesting way of spelling my name. .

I've pulled out of the event. The lists that I wanted to take would of involved too much painting for me to bother with.

I really don't think the scenarios work. Okay, some work quite well, but I don't think the win-lose-draw system works in conjunction with it. The scenario should be worth up to half the points, with the other half gained from VP difference. The 20-0 system encourages ppl to play on even when then are losing - whereas you'll just conceed if you get a certain points difference if your playing win-lose-draw.

[fatolaf]

Name corrected....

Take Stevo at Warlord GT, Watchtower mission, he gets 2500 odd VP's and yet still loses the game due to 2-3 high elves left in the tower. Stuff of legends, long may it continue.

Having 20-0 PB only tournies (and I mean 2 day 5-6 game tournies), led to a very stale environment in 7th. Agreed that at 1 day , 3 game tournies they might not work so well, but then again I'mnot sure the 20-0 system is needed either at the 3 game level, win lose or draw with VP's to seperate the difference is all that is needed at that level.

Plus if you keep losers in the mix (ie Win 30TP,s , Draw 20TP's, Loss 10TP's) then regardless of scenario everyone will go for as many VP's as possible despite the scenario going against them.
I did it for the last waargh and it worked well, going on feedback..

The TO's need to change their scoring system and way of thinking, and keep scenarios in the rulespacks, it's what 8th is designed for.
7th Ed is dead, time to move on...

[Cyberactivity]

I just think that the scoring system needs to be tweaked.

You can have scenarios, but is it fair that if you win a game by 101 pts its worth the same as beating 3 opponents by 99pts? (based on the 30pts for a win, 10 for a draw).

VP's end up meaning nothing in the above. If your playing, and on turn 2 you realise that you just won't be able to win the scenario, you'll conceed, as VP's only really come into it in a tie break, so you might as well save time/energy etc and give up then.

At least when you add value to VP's in line with the scenario, that's where you start getting a good game. Where destroying your opponent alone doesn't get you the win, but neither does being a single model in a watchtower when the rest of your army has been wiped out. If you want to weight one over the other, you can then determine what factor you feel, as a TO, is more important.

For example, if your going very basic I would give 10pts for the scenario win, 5pts for the scenario draw and 0pts for the loss. Do the same based on the VP difference, or do a sliding scale up to 10 (ie 9-1, 8-2 etc). That way, if I know I can't win the scenario (therefore am giving up a chance for the win) I can still go "right, its turn 2, I can't win the scenario, but i'll carry on playing to try and get some TP's from the VP's".

I think that is quite a fair way of doing things.

[Undead Dan]

Of course if you're capable of enjoying a game where you're probably going to lose, then you'd play on and hopefully have some fun! However with RR being totally uncomped there is definitely the poshibillity that you might face some pointless game-ruining crap. But that's RR all over (I had to face Julien last year, can you IMAGINE )!

Army lists in this weekend for bonus points. I'm probably going to get out the Goblins lead by Skarsnik even though he's rubbish and doesn't get a look out sir...

[fatolaf]

For example, if your going very basic I would give 10pts for the scenario win, 5pts for the scenario draw and 0pts for the loss. Do the same based on the VP difference, or do a sliding scale up to 10 (ie 9-1, 8-2 etc). That way, if I know I can't win the scenario (therefore am giving up a chance for the win) I can still go "right, its turn 2, I can't win the scenario, but i'll carry on playing to try and get some TP's from the VP's".

I think that is quite a fair way of doing things.

Or simply you go for it to gain VP's despite the fact you are going to lose TP's..

What you are doing there mate, is totally restricting the power of the scenarios so that 7th Ed Power lists can ignore the various scenario necessaties and win by essentially playing pitched battle every game..

how come the 40K tounrnie scene can cope with scenarios. You just need to change your way of thinking, change your list and you will soon get used to it.
Especially if you play a 5-6 game tournie and there wyou will see how the scenarios really kick in...

[Cyberactivity]

As I said, why bother going for VP's if there is no benefit to it? Okay, you may play on for the hell of it, but other than that, most of the time you'd probably prefer going to the bar early to get a drink.

The scenarios are okay, but I feel they need some small changes in order to make them tourney compatible - the watchtower scenario for example - the one that you thought up for the clapham charge worked much better than the one in the book. The basis of the idea is good, but it needs to be built on. That's all I'm saying.

As for the 40k scenarios....wouldn't know fella. Round bases are a mystery o me.

[Mike]

Best top 10 i've seen in.... well Ever.

1.  Bretonnians
2.  Bretonnians
3. Dark Elves
4.  Beastmen
5. Daemons of Chaos
6.  Lizardmen
7. Bretonnians
8.  High Elves
9.  Bretonnians
10. Lizardmen

My guess is being able to take a lvl 4 life and a tooled up lord is... how the cool kids say... FTW!

[fatolaf]

4.  Beastmen

[Undead Dan]

Yeah a very interesting top 10. Sadly me and the other Orc and Goblin players did not fare very well.

I was lucky enough to play against a chap called Les game 1 who inspired me to collect Goblins last year, and at 1500 points Skarsnik did me proud, preventing both his gobbo blocks deploying- he had 5 characters running around by themselves as a result. He played very loosely at the start which let me charge his armoured wolf riders and chariots turn 1, while my scouting Big Boss took apart his warmachines. We only got to (his) turn 4, but I'd secured the win when my Giant ate his Warboss and my Scout nutted his BSB. Waaaagh!

I then played vs Brets game 2, he had 1 level 1 and took Throne of Vines... didn't cast much unsurprisingly. He had 3 big lances and 2 small ones, nothing else. I was rather unlucky as Skarsnik's block failed a panic test (LD9 with reroll, nice) that made them flee into a river, which removes steadfast. But I still had a good chance of victory as the block was close enough to smash into his Lord's unit... if I could roll a 4. Suffice to say, I failed, and Skarsnik and co were hit front and flank, and not even insane courage could save me. Big loss!

Game 3 at 2000 points vs Nick Pym in a direct rematch from the GT, where my Gobbos with Skarsnik faced his Daemons in battle for the pass. I lost that one and this one went the same. I almost had him turn 1 as the sneaky schemes meant his 40 Horrors couldn't deploy, and his Herald of Tzeentch had to deploy in a Flamer unit. A lot of effort into killing two of the Flamers meant no look out sir, then I dropped a rock on the Herald's head... he ward saved it. Then his 10 remaining Flamers were on fire (see what I did there?), consistently doing at least 1.5 time the average damage to destroy/panic my units outright. Combined with two IF Dwellers killing most my big block as well as my Warboss and a shaman, I didn't stand a chance.

Last game vs Poi's Skaven. Very balanced army with lots of core hordes and two Assassins. Very frustrating start as I put a lot of wounds on his weapon teams and his Grey Seer (thanks to a Feedback Scroll) and he warded them all. Fanatics were a liability as usual- 4D6 hits on his Giant Rats killed 8 of them, the Fanatics then did the same damage to Skarsnik's unit and killed 20. Combined with 13th spell wiping out 16, it wasn't long until the unit was reduced to just characters. Meanwhile Trolls tried to kill the Grey Seer (Cue more successful ward saves, yet a strange inability for me to pass regeneration) but failed miserably. Game ended when the Seer's unit ran down the Trolls, turned around, rolled 12 to charge Skarnsik and his buddies in the rear. Nearly got some justice when the Grey Seer got the BAD miscast result before the final combat, but he didn't get sucked into the warp and so another big loss!

A good fun set of games, didn't have the same feel as previous years as no-one else from OG or Clapham attended, plus none of the usual tournament big-hitters (Nothing to do with lack of rankings points, I'm sure). Was good to see the regulars like Andy, Mark and Martin though, and there wasn't too much filth really, and what filth there was didn't do so well really! The Diesel suffered quite a lot despite his double abominations...

[khaosgoblin]

I took along my Wood Elves to finally try & get them working in 8th edition, as this was uncomped I did not expect to fare well.

2000 point list below, wild riders/ scouts plus 2 ubits of dryads dropped for the 1500 point games.

Lvl 4 dispel scroll & ruby ring
BSB with hoda
Branchwraith with cluster
19 glade guard with flaming banner
2 x 10 glade guard
6 x 8 Dryads
5 x scouts
6 x wild riders with razor banner

Game 1 played brets with lvl 4, two big lances & two trebs plus 2 yeoman units.
basically got continously slammed by trebs, picked of chaff but failed to stop blocks.
Finished up with 240 vs his 456 so a loss to me

Game 2 vs Andy parkers double Hydra & big magic army l4, 2 x lvl1 plus 3 x shade units.
I shot both hydras to bits with the banner of eternal flame & chased down the shades with the dryads, giving me 650 vs 420 & a win, plus the huge ego boost of the woodies taking down two hydras which would have decimated the army in 7th edition.

Game 3 stepping up to 2000 against WOC wiith hellcannon & lvl 4, had a mass 40 strong block of frenzied marauders plus six chaos ogres, managed to wipe out the marauders & ogres whilst conceding some dryads to slow the rest down, 555 vs 384 another win to the WE.

Game 4 was against a double steg & slann (life plus all toys) list with temple guard.
I managed to take down a steg early on with wild riders but after that suffered against the magic domination from the slann, dwellers every round took its toll, I picked of some peripheral units, failed to take down second slann & was quite please with final result of 375 vs 446 & a draw.

Overall 12th out of 30, but I struggled to get any decent wins, would have done poorly in a 20 vs nil system.

have rewritten list, taken out branchwrait & scouts, replaced with an alter plus eagle.

Planning to take the woodies to the Unseen Lerker GT at the end of the month.

Mark