Procrastination by Numbers

[The Trampoline]

Looks good Matt, army progression wise my suggestions would be,

If you're planning on using the black reach dreadnought then definately get a drop pod for it.

After playing a few games with a dreadnought with an assault cannon (same range of 24" as the dread's mutli--melta) 24" is just too short a range in 40K. Even moving six you'll still find yoursel fout of range often or not of things you want to blast with it, especially as they'll have greater movement than you and will stay out of range. The drop pod (cheap at 35points) allows you to land pretty much next to what you want to shoot.

It's also slightly smaller than a normal dread so I think trying to swap the weapon the new one would look a little oversized. I think the best weapon for the dreadnought is two twin linked autocannons (one on each arm), since this gives you a whooping 48" range.

Whirlwinds are not very good apparantely, I've not used one myself but my 40K friends at Spiky told me to steer clear of it, however, the Predator is very good. I've been using mine with the autocannon and with heavy bolters makes a very good anti-personnel tank capable of shooting light tanks and skimmers. I used two the other day and had them moving in front of my Rhino's providing a very good shield.

Don't bother getting the battleforce, unless you're really dead keen on getting the assault marines and scouts. Scouts are largelly here nor there. These are the ones with bolters which hit on 4's not 3's which is a big difference in 40K. You could stick them in a landspeeder storm to fly onto objectives but this is a fragile unit. Assault marines are no better than normal marines in combat, the only thing is the extra attack which after fighting a few combats in 40K isn't much cop unless they're a tonne of you. I think assautl marines would only be good in a squad of ten with chaplin and that's a lot of points that are not scoring.

Also you get 15 marines and you only need another 10 to make up your second tactical squad (you only need 2 squads, anymore is a waste.)

If you did get the batltleforce order some heavy weapons off ebay bits sellers seperately and turn the 5 man combat squad into a devastor squad.

Suggestions I would make for next purchase would be Rhino, Predator & devestator squad. After that Rhino and another tactical squad. For your tactical squads you should put power fists on your sergeants.

[Dave]

I quite like the unit of scouts as a cheap unit to drop in your deployment zone and capture objectives.

Remember with space marines you have 2 (3) scoring units:
Tac Squad
Scouts
Marine bikes (when captain is mounted on a bike)

So for objectives you'll either need multiple tac squads or some scouts.  The scout kit is quite nice too, I chopped up my shotguns and bolt guns to make them have extended guns with a sight on them to use as sniper rifles rather than buying the metal (finecast) snipers.  That said they all rather stupidly have forgotten their helmets... One might also question giving the guys with the lowest balistic skill in the army the sniper rifles, surely they should go to the crack shots... Oh well!





For VFM AoBR marines were good and cheap, but dunno now it's not in production if that's still the case.

[The Trampoline]

You can split tactical squads into two units, both are still scoring units so 2 squads can become 4 scoring units.

However, scouts are good to sit on an objective in your deployment holding it. With camo cloaks in cover soemthing silly like a 2 or 3 up cover save.

[roland murat]

The bits from AOBR dread and the normal one aren't interchangeable as the connections are different sizes.

I'm intending to use scouts to sit on a home objective (possibly behind an aegis defence line with the sarge manning a quad gun or lascannon depending on what I go with)

[cunningmatt]

Cheers for all the comments, rather than replying to them all I'm going to try and talk more about it in next week's blog.

As a further couple of questions though, what is the difference between a Tactical Squad and a Combat Squad - is it just the number of Marines, can't really see in the Space Marines book?

My initial thought had been getting the Battle Force to allow me to build rather bog-standard neutral items to fill up army while I play games and work out how Warhammer 40,000 works, and then choose more exciting things for the rest of my points. I know the Assault Marines have had some flack in the replies  - is there any merit in my plan, or is it simply foolish?

[lagar312]

what is the difference between a Tactical Squad and a Combat Squad - is it just the number of Marines, can't really see in the Space Marines book?

Certain units (from memory it's vets,tactical,assualt, Devastator, bike and scout squads) in the Space marine Codex are able to split into two 'combat units' so long as they have a minimum number of models in the unit (10 i believe) believe it's mentioned under the chapter rules at the from of the book!

is there any merit in my plan, or is it simply foolish?

Foolish!! 

[Dave]

Given how your HE ended up I wouldn't be overly worried about owning one or two less than optimal choices, unless you're trying to just build a tournament army.

Also despite everyone saying Assault marines aren't that good the few games I did play of 5th Ed I found them to be one of my favourite and most useful units.  They always seemed to do a job for me in clearing opponents off an objective when they didn't expect me to get to them in time. 12" move plus run/charge covers a lot of board.

[The Trampoline]

A Combat Squad is 5 Space Marines, a Tactical Squad is 10 Space Marines.

A combat Squad of 5 can't buy any special or heavy weapons, I think the sergeant can buy wargear but that's it. You start off with one of these and need to buy the additional 5 Space Marines to make the Tactical Squad. When you do you get access to special weapons and heavy weapons (certain ones being free for the squad.) GW sells both, a combat squad of 5 models which has no command sprue, so no sergeant, special weapons or missile launcher options. Then the tactical squad of 10 models which does have the command sprue.

Combat Tactics is the special Rule where a Tactical Squad (10 marines), ten man squad of Devestators, Sternguard and Scouts (off the top of my memory) can split into two units. With the tactical marines this means you can turn 1 scoring unit into 2, very handy if you have multiple objectives on the board. Or you cna keep one half (with the heavy weapon) stationary in your deployment to stop against line-breaker, whilst send the other half with sergeant and special weapon) in a Rhino off to an objective or to get you linebreaker.

Dave how many assault marines were you using. I've not played 5th but my 40k friend said that there is a lot more shooting in the game now, combat units do not have much free reign as they used to. I think also what puts me off them is the points investment for the unit, space marines are expensive and there are other units I think would be a better investment.

Matt, I don't think buying the battleforce is a foolish idea especially if you want to play around with the units and find out which ones you prefer. However, you'll have 5 space marines left over doing nothing (after buying two tactical squads and scouts in your army you don't need a combat squad in your army). With the assault marines if you play anyone with marines, grey knights, necrons, or eldar (if they have a lot of apect warriors) then they'll bounce off most units since they can't penetrate armour. I think you'll have two units you just won't use after a while, perhaps three if you get bored of the scouts.

I'd recommend buying a drop pod for your dreadnought, a predator tank and a rhino for your first tactical squad.

[cunningmatt]

Ahhh this is what confused me, seeing the Combat Squad kit I presumed it was a unit type and couldn't find it in the army list! Thanks guys. Really should play this game probably make things a whole lot more clear.

Given how your HE ended up I wouldn't be overly worried about owning one or two less than optimal choices, unless you're trying to just build a tournament army.

This is a very good point, though I probably should aim for something slightly smaller than my High Elves!!  Worryingly I'm quite enjoying painting them, which could lead to disaster!!

For now I will keep wistfully looking at the Games Workshop website - though any other suggestions, hints and tips are very much welcome.

[Dave]

Dave how many assault marines were you using. I've not played 5th but my 40k friend said that there is a lot more shooting in the game now, combat units do not have much free reign as they used to. I think also what puts me off them is the points investment for the unit, space marines are expensive and there are other units I think would be a better investment.

Was a full squad of 10 with powerfist and a couple of flamers if memory serves. Not saying they're a great choice but they always did a job.  Suspect your mates advice is pretty accurate, but I like the way jump pack troops look, so would like to have some in any army I ran!

Matt, I don't think buying the battleforce is a foolish idea especially if you want to play around with the units and find out which ones you prefer. However, you'll have 5 space marines left over doing nothing.

Again if you run larger dev squads for ablative wounds then these guys have a use (dev box contains sarge & 4 heavy weapon guys).  That said devestators are pt for pt a rubbish investmetn for marines, most expensive way of getting heavy weapons into the army.

Matt, a slight tangent but if you're going to be buying a lot of tanks do you have a space in which you could use an airbrush?  If so for <£100 you can get a decent compressor and airbrush which makes doing tanks a doddle.