Great Venue, cheap bar, cheap travel...
One of the wierdest rules packs however I have seen in a while :))
What do you think?
Who is up for going?
Team OG:
Ol
JD
Rob R
Tom H
Annie
Steven
Jack
Noah
Jim
Mitch
QuoteAs the title says, this is the thread where the entrants and rulespack can be found.
The event is being held in the usual venue in Sheffield on the weekend of the 28/29 Jan 2012. The rulespack is in the link below:
http://dragonslayersclub.wordpress.com/
Please pay special attention to the army comp, army submission and painting marks.
Entry is either via post (cheque) or via paypal- £31 to chrislegg3@hotmail.com . Refunds will be given until one month prior to the event.
From previous years this will sell out very quickly and it is capped at 70 players, so if you want to enter please get your entries in quickly!
Hope to see you there
Chris
Open lists...
Does this not really play into the hands of Skaven players ie Hellpit vs location of flaming banner???
I'm def interested in this.
I like the idea of open lists to be honest. Its more the Special Characters being allowed (bar a few select ones) I find interesting... perhaps see some double ranger Dwarf lists?
I'm in
I'd like to, work have said recently that I can have one day off a month (rather than the 5 a YEAR) which is pretty sweet. It's subject to change though so I don't want to make plans too far in advance.. but it says refunds up to a month before so I'm tempted to buy a ticket and then can always refund nearer if I find out I can't do it?
In short, probabaly.
Paid!
I'm definitely in... Are you going to sort out a team space on TWF dude or do you want us to do it individually?
As long as I'm not working, IN!
Actually should be able to get weekends off in this job s should be able to make it.
Interesting is right. Special Characters could be different, do they usually allow them?
As for open lists, I certainly never have a problem figuring out where hidden stuff is. Its usually pretty obvious anyway. Remembering its there is the hard part... Open lists aren't wrong, just different
I'm in just arranging payment now.
I've just paid now... Looking forward to it. Do you want to share bunkbeds Olly???
i'm all payed up for this. bit early to organise but i will be looking for a rommie lads
Quote from: Steve H on October 10, 2011, 09:51:31 am
I've just paid now... Looking forward to it. Do you want to share bunkbeds Olly???
You and Me, Jd & Tom H ?
Name down and off with my old roomie, a old school event style.
If jd is happy I'm game
JD/OL/anyone else... tickets technically sold out, theres only a few left reserved for Dragon Slayers but people are already forming a reserves queue, get your asses on it ASAP if you want to go!
I needs a roomie, are there bunkbeds or is that just a phrase?
That sold out quick... hope I got a ticket ok!
Quote from: noahtonkin on October 11, 2011, 10:31:00 am
That sold out quick... hope I got a ticket ok!
Yep, pretty sure you were on the list dude. We'll have to see who can get higher up the Ogre ladder!
Yay, should be a laugh. The best WFB tournament of the year and great to catch up with some old friends i have not seen since moving to WM/H.
My issue is either a Crone Khainite army or my WEs of many shots and practice games, ie OG events.
Leggy has saved a ticket for me and JD as well, hopefully for Jimbob as well...
Looks like the travel lodge (which is 300 meters away is full already), only double rooms left (and v pricey)..
Who wants to stay at the nearest Prem inn, £29 a night, and we can share taxis...
http://www.premierinn.com/en/hotel/SHEPTI/sheffield-meadowhall
Me , JD, Stevo? Tom H?
if i'm staying with JD i'm happy to go to premier inn
Yep, fine by me...
I assume I am currently on the reserve list, yet if I get an actual place I'd like to be at the premier inn too.
84 places now, so Rob and James are both in, get your payments in asap chaps...
Money sent. Okay Who needs a roomie?
Quote from: Meals on October 11, 2011, 06:13:13 pm
Money sent. Okay Who needs a roomie?
I'll share with you mate.
I'll need a roomie too
Sent from my 7 Pro T7576 using Board Express
Rob, James, Prem Inn?
We can do a block booking when we get final numbers...
@ Noah, do you want to share with gareth (he is coming as well)
yup sounds good Ol
Did anyone manage to book that premier inn for £29? Seems it sold out before I managed to book it : (
Quote from: Viruk on October 11, 2011, 06:36:06 pm
Did anyone manage to book that premier inn for £29? Seems it sold out before I managed to book it : (
There's 2 within 2 miles, it will be fine....
Quote from: fatolaf on October 11, 2011, 06:29:50 pm
@ Noah, do you want to share with gareth (he is coming as well)
Sounds good to me mate.
I don't know if I'm smelly or frightening but it's always hard for me to get a roomie!
I'm bunking with the Darcy now, will check with him and Cardiff Possee about where to stay, you all Premming then? is there plenty of rooms?
Quote from: Annie on October 13, 2011, 11:43:52 am
I don't know if I'm smelly or frightening but it's always hard for me to get a roomie!
I'm bunking with the Darcy now, will check with him and Cardiff Possee about where to stay, you all Premming then? is there plenty of rooms?
Yep 2 hotels within 2 miles, plenty of rooms...
Quote from: Annie on October 13, 2011, 11:43:52 am
I don't know if I'm smelly or frightening but it's always hard for me to get a roomie!
I'm bunking with the Darcy now, will check with him and Cardiff Possee about where to stay, you all Premming then? is there plenty of rooms?
:hug;2:
So who do i need to pay for the privelidge of bunking with annie for the weekend?
Looking forward to catching up with Biggsy and seeing some of the old names. Only missed 1 Slaughter since it has been run. Which was last year.
Quote from: Darcy on October 17, 2011, 02:20:30 pm
So who do i need to pay for the privelidge of bunking with annie for the weekend?
I'll take any payments gladly.... :cool3:
Ol
Quote from: fatolaf on October 17, 2011, 02:31:55 pm
I'll take any payments gladly.... :cool3:
Ol
Do i actually get a bed with these payments or just the happy feeling ive just paid for your first round on saturday night
Quote from: Darcy on October 17, 2011, 02:42:54 pm
Do i actually get a bed with these payments or just the happy feeling ive just paid for your first round on saturday night
The happy feeling.... :cool3:
But if a serious answer is actually expected, I presume you pay on the day....
Hmmmm fair enough, must be annie talking nonsense, again
Quote from: Darcy on October 17, 2011, 03:07:07 pm
Hmmmm fair enough, must be annie talking nonsense, again
Aah, she might have meant us block booking, which we can do to get a discount. But we will still pay on arrival...
Potential epic 831 point unit
Rat Ogres Unit 451 points
8x Rat Ogres
Causes Fear, Elite Rat Ogre
2x Packmaster
Light Armour, Whip
Packmaster Skweel Gnawtooth
Light Armour, Warp-lash
with Throt the Unclean 225 points
Creature-Killer, Whip of Domination, Regeneration
Warlord 155 points
Heavy Armour, Rat Ogre Bonebreaker
Unless there is a special rule, the problem you may have is that Throt can be targetted and shot out of the unit. The rat ogres being monstrous infantry would not give him a Look Out Sir.
Quote from: Crompton on November 25, 2011, 12:32:18 am
Unless there is a special rule, the problem you may have is that Throt can be targetted and shot out of the unit. The rat ogres being monstrous infantry would not give him a Look Out Sir.
yep but from shooting there would be randomization from ogres/packmasters and then more randomization to hit the warlord/Gnawtooth and Throt, plus he has regen and so can the rat ogres, OFC no LOS but you cant have it all unless i put in more packmasters
Is there a points cap on units at sheffield?
If not, put a master moulder and rat ogre champion in the unit, and add a bunch more packmasters (to get the LoS for throt)
"No single non character unit in the army may be more than 450 points, including magic items and
command."
Sorry mate, you're 1 pt over...
Drop a ray ogre and add loads of packmasters
Wouldnt that unit be a mixed unit, not a monstrous infantry one? So no LOS for anyone.
well i could drop the rat ogre champion, why in mixed unit if i had 5/7 PM wouldn't give LOS for other characters on same size bases???
Because you would need to be in a unit of the same type- not same base size.
Quote from: Chris Legg on November 25, 2011, 01:22:39 pm
Because you would need to be in a unit of the same type- not same base size.
Skweel Gnawtooth and Throt the Unclean are the same type as are PM ??
and a boanbreaker is a monstrous beast same as the rat ogres so does that allow LOS
very sketchily rulings ere as of the skaven way
and Skweel Gnawtooth PG 71 RB clams he is a packmaster, but on page 103 clams he is a champion in all respects, and he is a character so does he have to go in the frount rank or places where ever i like, like a pack master ???
The bonebreaker counts as monstrous cav, so can't get LoS from anything
As Lee says, no for the Bonebreaker.
If Skweel and Throt just count as unit champions, then I believe they would get LOS. However, if the SCs count as Characters, then I think Leggy is right on the other two, but I have no idea whether there's some overriding rule in the Skaven book. That entire thing is a !@%$#%@ mess, ruleswise...
No no, Leggy's on about something else. Thanks to the Lizardmen FAQ, a unit with different types of models in there (e.g. Skink-Krox, or Rat-Ogres-Packmasters) counts as overal unit type: unique. This means a bunch of stuff, like not being able to be stomped, can't be hit by Dreaded 13th, and you can't enter buildings... aaaand also, as the unit is unique and the characters mentioned are not, no look out sir is possible with the unit.
That includes when Skink Priests go in Skink-Krox units, so always shoot them with cannons and be sure to thank all those lizardmen players who pushed for this FAQ answer in the first place to protect their precious Skink-Kroxigor units from being stomped :endit:
Quote from: maelzch on November 25, 2011, 01:53:24 pm
The bonebreaker counts as monstrous cav, so can't get LoS from anything
"The Rat Ogre Bonebreaker is a
monstrous beast as described in the Warhammer rulebook with
the following exception: the Rat Ogre Bonebreaker can only
join a regiment of Clanrats, Stormvermin or Rat Ogres."
But when a monstous beast is ridden, it's then monstrous cavalry.
And even if it was a Monstrous Beast, Rat Ogres are Monstrous Infantry, so it wouldn't get a Look Out Sir even then!
Quote from: Undead Dan on November 25, 2011, 02:26:53 pm
No no, Leggy's on about something else. Thanks to the Lizardmen FAQ, a unit with different types of models in there (e.g. Skink-Krox, or Rat-Ogres-Packmasters) counts as overal unit type: unique. This means a bunch of stuff, like not being able to be stomped, can't be hit by Dreaded 13th, and you can't enter buildings... aaaand also, as the unit is unique and the characters mentioned are not, no look out sir is possible with the unit.
That includes when Skink Priests go in Skink-Krox units, so always shoot them with cannons and be sure to thank all those lizardmen players who pushed for this FAQ answer in the first place to protect their precious Skink-Kroxigor units from being stomped :endit:
I was indeed. Now that I have cannons I can't wait to pull this one!
I should also mention I have updated the reserves list, most Oggers are in now.
going to be a messy weekend
Are the Hotel rooms booked already Ol?
Seems i'm now in.... just need to come up with a funky Beastmen list.....
Ghorro warhoof and Centigor buse/s FTW?!?!
Not booked anything for it yet, think we might do a block booking of one of the prem inns in the city centre, and all share a taxi.The nearest hotels are most likely booked out now anyway.
And now is about the time to get cheap train tickets.
Who needs a room booked, so far it's me, JD, Gareth and Jimbob?
Quote from: fatolaf on November 28, 2011, 09:33:39 pm
Who needs a room booked, so far it's me, JD, Gareth and Jimbob?
We were down for sharing buddy...
I'm going to wait and see what matt, mike and gareth from my posse are doing
Quote from: fatolaf on November 28, 2011, 09:33:39 pm
Who needs a room booked, so far it's me, JD, Gareth and Jimbob?
I'm still planning to share with Jimbob
Quote from: Crompton on November 28, 2011, 11:26:58 pm
I'm still planning to share with Jimbob
Traitor! Did Valhalla mean nothing to you! :whip:
Does anyone need a ticket for Sheffield. Various issues mean I'm not going to be able to go I'm afraid.
Leggy has said that tickets arent to be sold on. Instead they go to the next person on the reserve list.
So I need to book for
Me & Stevo
Rob R & Jimbob
G & JD...
Also please be aware that the date on this thread was wrong, its on the 28th and 29th of Jan...
Quote from: fatolaf on November 29, 2011, 02:50:22 pm
So I need to book for
Me & Stevo
Rob R & Jimbob
G & JD...
Rooms booked , very hard to find twins or triples...
Sleep Hotel, a couple of miles from venue
Around £45 each
http://www.laterooms.com/en/hotel-directions/193783_sleep-hotel-sheffield.aspx
Thanks dude...
Splendid, Thanks Ol!
Cool, sorry i am bunking with Biggsy so it is a proper old school event. Lets get last place.
Ol I'm still looking for a bed/ room mate, shall I his sort myself out?
Quote from: sainthale1988 on November 29, 2011, 11:20:06 pm
Ol I'm still looking for a bed/ room mate, shall I his sort myself out?
Yes buddy, but there are rooms free at the Sleep hotel still, so best look there (think there are a few singles)
Trains
Not found the magic £5 1st class that I have had the last 2 years but there are some very cheap tickets available on trainline.com
1st class 12.55 from St Pancreas: £20 (or £17 for cattle) - Friday
1st class 17:29 from Sheffield (event finishes at 4) : £25 (£23 cattle)
The return journey at that time also has no changes, unlike most of the others
http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable (http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable)
Reminds me that I need to get a room booked for this.
Looking at the Dragon Slayers scoring system I may well end up taking Beastmen or High Elves as the woodies will struggle to get good scores.
Mark
Not seen you on here in ages buddy, finally grabbed some PC time hey?
Quote from: khaosgoblin on December 04, 2011, 12:37:02 pm
Reminds me that I need to get a room booked for this.
Looking at the Dragon Slayers scoring system I may well end up taking Beastmen or High Elves as the woodies will struggle to get good scores.
Mark
We are using the normal 20-0 system matey.
If any one wants a lift they can, I'm planning on leaving about 8.30/9am though.
Failing that I can take the terrain.
Hi Chris, might take you up on that if I can get the time off work
For train up to Sheffield on Friday 27th I'm going to wait till 19:55 train as I save £60 and can travel first class for £1.50 more than cattle. Might go home to change have some food etc. Also means I dont have to drag my stuff to work in the morning
Quote from: Chris Legg on December 05, 2011, 05:01:55 pm
Failing that I can take the terrain.
That would be great Chris, thank you
With a few drop outs from the Black sun boys, Raff and now sadly Stevo.
I think we can say that Jack and Steven are in now....
im still unsure if ill be able to go with impending homelessness and trying to get a job even if i don't become homeless and get a job doubt ill be able to book time off
Thats fair enough buddy
just to let you know that Jack and Steven have a place. Can you please pay asap!
Ta
Chris
Thanks for letting me know Chris, but I don't think I'm going to make this one after all - you can offer my place onto the next reserve.
Cheers
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 05, 2012, 09:31:33 pm
just to let you know that Jack and Steven have a place. Can you please pay asap!
Ta
Chris
Steven is out as well buddy, and Stevo cant make it now as well (Steve Hursell)
Just occured to me that I haven't booked train tickets yet. Is there a booze train going up?
Does cost about £10 more now Jimbob, but still a bargain for 1st class...
Quote from: fatolaf on December 02, 2011, 04:46:10 pm
Trains
Not found the magic £5 1st class that I have had the last 2 years but there are some very cheap tickets available on trainline.com
1st class 12.55 from St Pancreas: £20 (or £17 for cattle) - Friday
1st class 17:29 from Sheffield (event finishes at 4) : £25 (£23 cattle)
The return journey at that time also has no changes, unlike most of the others
http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable (http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable)
Sweet all booked. There's something oddly satisfying about the Trainline telling me I saved £100 on tickets, regardless of whether its true or not...
Now, what are we drinking?
What time are we meeting for the gin party?
On the about 12:30 at train station.... :thumbsup:
LISTS NEED TO BE IN TOMORROW GUYS
8PM is the deadline
Email them to[spoiler] chrislegg3@hotmail.com[/spoiler]
My filth has been submitted. Only 4 Paladins made the cut, but I can't wait to run the Green Knight around like a mad man :))
My list is in. Skaven are so bent in this comp: only thing I lack is second WLC!
I am so not looking forward to this...... :endit:
yay bottom tables here i come. heres my easy to beat army.
Spellweaver, Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Level 4 =275pts
Spellweaver, Life, Power Stone, Level 4 (General) =270pts
Noble, Hail of Doom, Eagle, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Shield, Relic Blade =179pts
Noble, Scout, Pageant of Strikes =115pts
Alter Noble, Stone of Rebirth, Potion of Strength, AHW =154pts
10 Glade Guard, Std, Flaming Banner =142pts
10 Glade Guard =120pts
10 Glade Guard =120pts
10 Glade Guard =120pts
10 Glade Guard =120pts
10 Glade Guard, Musician =126pts
10 Glade Guard, Musician =126pts
8 Dryads =96pts
8 Dryads =96pts
5 Waywatchers =120pts
5 Waywatchers =120pts
Eagle =50pts
Eagle =50pts
2399pts
bottom tables with 70+ MSU shots...Hmmm not sure about that one Rob... :cool3:
Yeah, don't think you'll bottom with that, Rob. I'm not sure I'll last very long at all... Does look like a job for the Green Knight though. The rest of my army will just hide in the corner :endit:.
Ol, will you look forward to it if I wear a silly hat all weekend? :thumbsup:
My problem is when they get to me i tend to die a lot. Shame i can't fit any combat unit in there. I don't know i was toying with the CoK bus but tbh the massive unit looked mind numbingly boring and i always liked MSU. Just hoping i kill them all and skaven love my army.
Quote from: Meals on January 17, 2012, 04:50:35 pm
Ol, will you look forward to it if I wear a silly hat all weekend? :thumbsup:
Maybe...
Just have zero interest in WFB at the moment....
Right can I get a head count of who is needing a hotel room, I have 3 twin rooms booked at the moment and my card will be charged the day before we get there..
So I need to know who is needing a room, so i can cancel a room if needs be..
So far we have
Ol
JD
Gareth
who else needs a room?
Me
Ol
JD
Gareth
Rob R
Me.
Ol
JD
Gareth
Rob R
Jimbo
Thought as much, which means unless I get a replacment for stevo then we have £££ issues
I can sleep on a floor if necessary, if you think we could get away with it.
Quote from: Meals on January 19, 2012, 02:09:08 pm
I can sleep on a floor if necessary, if you think we could get away with it.
Nah, not worth risk.
Stevo will pay for his half if we dont get a replacment (i know luke rooney was looking for a room)
Draw is up, and it is a bad one for me I reckon :(
8 Rob Ritchie Dwarfs
Matthew Turnbridge Vampire Counts
9 Tom Hall Ogre Kingdoms
James Milner Bretonnians
14 Dave Grant Ogre Kingdoms
Gareth Cox Beastmen
18 Tom Hale Skaven
Darren Parkes Beastmen
22 Rob Ing Skaven
Annie Norman Vampire Counts
29 Gary Denisov High Elves
Ol Knesebeck Tomb Kings
33 Mike Newman Lizardmen
Jonathon Doyle Wood Elves
You both have odd lists-
Vampire lord, Level 3, dispell scroll, carstien ring, summon ghouls, infinite hatred, forbbiden lore, (beast) dread knight, 455
Wight king, bsb, barded steed, drakenhoff banner, 245
wight king, barded steed, lance, dragon helm, 117
wight king, barded steed, lance, enchanted shield, dragon bane gem, 127
wight king, barded steed, lance, 107
55 ghouls, ghast, 448
55 ghouls, ghast, 448
13 black knights, barding, full command, banner of barrow, 449
Quote from: Crompton on January 23, 2012, 07:16:02 pm
29 Gary Denisov High Elves
Ol Knesebeck Tomb Kings
Ol's a big fan of the book of hoeth right? And shadow magic too?
Ugh the Carstein ring and a massive knight bus. Last time I played that I got tabled, but perhaps my deathstar will beat his or he'll ignore it and ghoul me up a huge amount :cry:
Do you still need terrain taking up?
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 23, 2012, 09:00:30 pm
Do you still need terrain taking up?
Yes we do.
On an unrelated note. How are you ruling scouts affecting the +1 for first turn (totally forgot to ask this prior to making my list)?
Ol thats going to a tough one. Andy spiers so playing a mate but my limited gaming experience means i will prob lose, so i am not classed as a OGer then, lol.
Ogres. The green knight will enjoy cock blocking mournefang cav!
If he goes for extra strength attacks he will chip off a wound or two and the could break and get run down by him!
Ol, could i borrow some club terrain please for the event??
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 23, 2012, 09:00:30 pm
Do you still need terrain taking up?
Yes please buddy, when you able to come to club?
Quote from: Marauder Mitch on January 24, 2012, 10:10:47 am
Ol, could i borrow some club terrain please for the event??
Should be okay buddy
Good luck at the slaughter boys, looking forward to your tweets.
Agreed, keep the tweet updates coming!
Quote from: StubbornMark on January 24, 2012, 12:22:40 pm
Good luck at the slaughter boys.
We are going to need it... :cool3:
Only 4 VC players is a shock, 6 Tomb kings means I have more competition for best (worst) TK player....
Best WE player is an OG off, JD, Mo and Mitch...
High Elves 9
Skaven 8
Daemons of Chaos 7
Ogre Kingdoms 7
Orcs and Goblins 6
Dark Elves 6
Warriors of Chaos 6
Tomb Kings 6
Lizardmen 5
Vampire Counts 3
Wood Elves 3
Bretonnians 3
Empire 3
Dwarfs 3
Beastmen 3
Chaos Dwarfs 1
Guaranteed OG prize, good job guys!
Hmm, gotta beat adie mac for top Brett... Guess its a fight for second then!
Think my painting scores will hurt me a bit overall though, my Brett's are in a pretty sorry ass state of affairs at the moment. Hooray for a general lack of caring!!!
Ohh thats good for the OG off. I think my list is slightly nasty but just couldn't get the list i was happy with the wardancers so added more firepower.
Quote from: Marauder Mitch on January 24, 2012, 01:03:08 pm
I think my list is slightly nasty
Yours is shooty, Mo's is Dancey and JD's is Tree ey :wink;m::
Quote from: fatolaf on January 24, 2012, 01:09:51 pm
Yours is shooty, Mo's is Dancey and JD's is Tree ey :wink;m::
Shouldn't that be JD's is woody, lol
See those fluffy WE armies with their many different build options, pure awesome army. I'm looking forward to running mine back out again, think I'm taking them to tempest at very least.
Quote from: fatolaf on January 24, 2012, 12:20:44 pm
Yes please buddy, when you able to come to club?
Have spent most of January in lovely sunny Glasgow which hasnt helped things with the event lol.
Will pick it up Thursday late time?
Quote from: Crompton on January 23, 2012, 09:19:48 pm
Yes we do.
On an unrelated note. How are you ruling scouts affecting the +1 for first turn (totally forgot to ask this prior to making my list)?
The rulebook way - so no +1 to go first.
Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2012, 01:41:58 pm
See those fluffy WE armies with their many different build options, pure awesome army. I'm looking forward to running mine back out again, think I'm taking them to tempest at very least.
Think you should do dark elves Dave, they have loads of builds!
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 24, 2012, 02:17:16 pm
Have spent most of January in lovely sunny Glasgow which hasnt helped things with the event lol.
Bad luck, still could be worse, could be Aberdeen.
Quote from: StubbornMark on January 24, 2012, 02:37:14 pm
Think you should do dark elves Dave, they have loads of builds!
Funny you should metion that. I might have bought 3 boxes of warriors and 2 units of Cold ones off Ol in his big old sale before Christmas.
Admittedly I don't want to do the TM build (30 corsairs 20 black guard, cauldron lvl 4 shadow, dreadlord on peg, 2 x 6 shades, hydra). But I do quite like the idea of them as a quite flexible army.
Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2012, 02:46:58 pm
Bad luck, still could be worse, could be Aberdeen.
I nearly moved there in early 2009 for a job, but didn't get the job so didn't move. I wonder what my life would be like if I had moved there!
Quote from: StubbornMark on January 24, 2012, 01:29:46 pm
Shouldn't that be JD's is woody, lol
Good point :thumbsup:
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 23, 2012, 07:17:44 pm
You both have odd lists-
Vampire lord, Level 3, dispell scroll, carstien ring, summon ghouls, infinite hatred, forbbiden lore, (beast) dread knight, 455
Wight king, bsb, barded steed, drakenhoff banner, 245
wight king, barded steed, lance, dragon helm, 117
wight king, barded steed, lance, enchanted shield, dragon bane gem, 127
wight king, barded steed, lance, 107
55 ghouls, ghast, 448
55 ghouls, ghast, 448
13 black knights, barding, full command, banner of barrow, 449
That list is bonkers, no VDM. so could be quite easy to avoid the bus (or all of it)
Have you considered what happens if he casts Savage beast on that unit :endit:
Quote from: The Trampoline on January 24, 2012, 03:33:04 pm
I nearly moved there in early 2009 for a job, but didn't get the job so didn't move. I wonder what my life would be like if I had moved there!
Grey. That said the locals like to moan a lot, you might fit in :wink;m::
Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2012, 04:24:02 pm
Grey. That said the locals like to moan a lot, you might fit in :wink;m::
lol, when I went I took my then High Elf army to check out the local warhammer scene, it was pretty much a GW battle bunker where I played a kid from Glasgow who took twenty minutes out of our game to talk to his mum on the phone...I wasn't too impressed!
lists are up. this is the filth i have to face with my poor poor ratmen
DARREN PARKES
Beastlord, Crown Of Command, Armour of Destiny, Sword of Striking, Shield, 248
Great Bray Shaman, LvL 4, Shadow, Additional Hand Weapon, Talisman of Preservation, 284
Wargor Battle Standard, Heavy Armour, Shield, Banner of the Beast, Gnarled Hide, 206
LvL 2 Shaman, Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Additional Hand Weapon, Ironcurse Icon, 142
39 Gors, Full command, Additional Hand Weapons, 337
39 Gors, Full command, Additional Hand Weapons, 337
Chariot, 80
5 Ungor Raiders, 30
5 Ungor Raiders, 30
29 Bestigors, Full command, Standard of Discipline, 393
Razorgor Chariot, 145
5 Harpies, 55
Razorgor, 55
Razorgor, 55
he even has little unarmoured pigs for me to shoot with my gutter runners. how kind :cool3:
Don't know why he has the extra 39 Gor, silly man. He should have 1 unit of 50+ and am extra 2-3 shamans with the herdstone.
Rob, can you resubmit your list as Chris has just pointed out on TWF that Bugman means his rangers dont count for core.
Cheers fella
Chris
So I assume the dragon hide banner doesn't grant magical attacks right?
Also Tom halls butcher has no magic lore...
This is true, thought I'd got them all but my eyes are going mad!
Its beasts by the way, will get it amended soon.
Cheers Leggy. With that volume of crap I cant blame ya...
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 24, 2012, 07:38:30 pm
Rob, can you resubmit your list as Chris has just pointed out on TWF that Bugman means his rangers dont count for core.
Cheers fella
Chris
List was legal. Ritchie 1- Appleford 0
The TwF thread is depressing me now, the clamour for blood (docked points) for the slightest mistakes is indicative of where this scene is heading. Not a fan of this attitude, not one bit! :bash;m:
Quote from: fatolaf on January 25, 2012, 01:14:02 pm
The TwF thread is depressing me now, the clamour for blood (docked points) for the slightest mistakes is indicative of where this scene is heading. Not a fan of this attitude, not one bit! :bash;m:
I read that... Couldn't believe it!
Ridiculous! Too many people now take toy soldiers waaaay too seriously!
Quote from: maelzch on January 25, 2012, 01:18:02 pm
Ridiculous! Too many people now take toy soldiers waaaay too seriously!
the ETC mentality (commitee) does not help, how long before we all have to play SLOS.... :endit:
Quote from: fatolaf on January 25, 2012, 01:22:39 pm
the ETC mentality (commitee) does not help, how long before we all have to play SLOS.... :endit:
Never... If it gets to that I'll be playing 40k!!!
I'll just never go to any event with SLOS.
Doubt that'll happen. Team England have been arguing for TLoS at the ETC.
As for the lists, its an interesting one. I mean on one hand, given how much work TOs have to do for the players, is it really that hard to get your list right so they don't have more work to do? But on the other hand, and more importantly, it's just Toy Soldiers...
The really interesting thing for me, is that seeing how many of these errors are cropping up with this current wave of Open List tournies, makes you wonder just how many illegal lists are being used accidently in closed list tournies...
Quote from: maelzch on January 25, 2012, 01:31:03 pm
I'll just never go to any event with SLOS.
I will with my double dragon list!
My problem wasn't that the TO would deduct points (it's in the pack so absolutely no problems)... It's the other players popping up on threads saying it should be enforced when it's none of their business! Just the TO's decision...
It's a bit like running after the referee waving imaginary cards at him to try and get an opponent sent off!
Anyway... Leggy's a nice chap so he wont do it!!! :)
Quote from: Steve H on January 25, 2012, 01:57:34 pm
It's a bit like running after the referee waving imaginary cards at him to try and get an opponent sent off!
Exactly :daredulerules:
Quote from: Meals on January 25, 2012, 01:36:02 pm
Doubt that'll happen. Team England have been arguing for TLoS at the ETC.
As for the lists, its an interesting one. I mean on one hand, given how much work TOs have to do for the players, is it really that hard to get your list right so they don't have more work to do? But on the other hand, and more importantly, it's just Toy Soldiers...
The really interesting thing for me, is that seeing how many of these errors are cropping up with this current wave of Open List tournies, makes you wonder just how many illegal lists are being used accidently in closed list tournies...
You'd be suprised at how bad some people are. I've been marking lists for events since about 2004 and in 7th some of the mistakes were so evident it had to be deliberate - I think for the CC in 2007 near enough 40% of the lists were outright illegal, usually overpointed, so it makes you think about the more competitive events such as GT's.
As for this year, I dont intend to penalise people for submitting a list in the army builder format, and few enough people did it so that I couldnt really be bothered in sending them back. Will announce this formally shortly though.
Um, excuse me Lee, could not refer to 'Warhammer Fantasy Battle' as 'toy soldiers'? I happen to take it very seriously as a pastime and will dock you 30pts from your life if you make that mistake again.
I think there should be a penalty system in place for people who complain before events, automatic yellow card.
Save under your own system give yourself a yellow card :cool3:
Well that were good.
(In Yorkshire accent)
Even if you did have to play 3 of us OGgers? Plus a 4th OG North member?
I have to say I thought the event was very well run by Leggy. The pack where you had your name already printed in all the scoring boxes was great and everytime I used my personalized charge arc I had a little giggle inside. Bravo that man I say!
What's the story guys and girls... Did you all have fun? Was there any more legendary dancing? Did you drink horrible cocktails?
Agree with Annie and Rob, this was a good event. Leggy deserves credit for a well run event!
No major drunken shenanigans.... at least not that i can remember :blush:
Grats to Mo and Jimbob for their best in race awards...
I managed a respectable two wins, two losses and a draw leaving me only 10 TPs behind the top beast player which i was more than happy with....
Moment of the weekend (on the tables at least) was taking Balthasar Gelt off the table at deployment with Slugtongues ability..... very satisfying... :cool3:
Agree with all. Leggy ran a great tournie. The personalised players pack for everyone were great and including a 'pin' ;-) was a stroke of genius! Nothing more annoying than having to hunt for own pen for 5 minutes because someone stole it and noone else has one...
Had a stupidly successful weekend without losing a single game. 4 wins and a draw, and I had to play 3 of the uk masters entrants on the trott... My other two opponents were in the top 15 as well... Too much thinking required!!!
Anyway just because bragging is required:
15th overall
Top brettonian
Top player with a special character
Top OG
Top James
Top New zealander (since Daves just token)
Winning!!!
I won Top Annie and Top Girl!!
I was also second best vampire player! Trophy would have been soooo nice, why didn't I spike Mat Sewel! :bash;m: :wink;m::
Quote from: Annie on January 30, 2012, 11:37:51 am
I won Top Annie and Top Girl!!
I was also second best vampire player! Trophy would have been soooo nice, why didn't I spike Mat Sewel! :bash;m: :wink;m::
Id love to spike Mat Sewell
... through the head......... With something very sharp!!! :D
My head hurts
Quote from: fatolaf on January 30, 2012, 12:02:12 pm
My head hurts
Pop some pro plus and paracetamol this afternoon, I'm looking forward to our pew pew later! (and hearing all the goss from Up North)
Great social weekend, drunk all saturday was fun and managed 3 wins, and felt sorry for annie as i just chaffed her out, and she made a few mistakes.
BTW i suck at WFB and i love it
Quote from: Marauder Mitch on January 30, 2012, 02:18:32 pm
Great social weekend, drunk all saturday was fun and managed 3 wins, and felt sorry for annie as i just chaffed her out, and she made a few mistakes.
BTW i suck at WFB and i love it
Hobbykiller :wink;m::
I was !@%$#%@ for that game, wasn't one of my best but not your fault, my head was banging and the hall was really loud I couldn't hear you too well!
I learnt some tricks for next time though... keep the infantry out of range... and just chuck the bus around sweeping up.. and keep the wraiths away from magic stuff *face palm* And better burning gaze targets!
The only downside to the weekend for me was the sports scores. Ant Spiers in the last game making his brother not get the #1 spot and Leggy allowing it was an utter disgrace. Plus Keith giving me a negative sports Pissed me right off and I am still grumbling about it over 24hrs later.
I heard about one 'skilled' player who is apparently lacking in personality who was wrecking weekends. Clubmate slammed him, now just seen so did others on Twitter. Probably just because he's a communist!
Yep I had him game 1, awful experience and put me in such a bad mood, that the wknd was soured cold not give a hoot about my games anymore and simply went through the motions, conceding another 2 over the wknd.
I am sick to death of playing morose waac players which sadly seem to be breeding..Even on the bottom players, on day 2 there were still players acting this way sadly...
The sports points abuse was very concerning as well, and shame that many of us did not know the full rules for this, as I would have given my 1st opponent 0 out of 6, not 5 as Leggy put down, where as other players knew the scale existed and docked more than one point tactically, ie Ant Spiers..
I wonder if knowing your painting soft scores beforehand was a contributor to this abuse
Quote from: fatolaf on January 31, 2012, 11:28:39 am
I am sick to death of playing morose waac players which sadly seem to be breeding..Even on the bottom players, on day 2 there were still players acting this way sadly...
:cry: :cry:
Quote from: Annie on January 31, 2012, 04:46:42 pm
:cry: :cry:
Was not referring to you madam..... :cool3:
Phew, thought you were referring to the cold, concentrated, calculated manner in which I play!
Quote from: Crompton on January 30, 2012, 06:14:34 pm
The only downside to the weekend for me was the sports scores. Ant Spiers in the last game making his brother not get the #1 spot and Leggy allowing it was an utter disgrace. Plus Keith giving me a negative sports Pissed me right off and I am still grumbling about it over 24hrs later.
Hi Rob,
Unsure why you think this given that you have no idea of what actually happened and are presumably relying on (at best) second hand information.
I basically sat by the game for about 90% of it at the request of both players, and to be frank, it was the worst game of warhammer I have ever witnessesed. There were numerous rules arguments, serious accusations of cheating and banging of fists. This is from both sides, not just Ant. At one stage, I seriously thought they were about to have a fight. They even spent 2 minutes arguing about how they were going to add up the VP's for the game. To me, it was the very definition of a bad sports game from both sides and I thought that they would either both hit each other, or none at all. In the end, it only turned out to be Ant.
However, to put a couple of things to bed.
1. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to finish ahead of him. They both knew that Andy was ahead on both tournament and painting points prior to the game and with a draw even with a sports hit Ant knew he would finished behind him.
2. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to prevent him winning the event. Ant had no real idea of what anyone else was on and he was aware that the top 2 tables were only seperated by I think 1 point going into the last round, so with a draw he assumed they would lose it anyway. Their game also finished at least 70 minutes before anyone else so Ant could not have possibly known that it would cost him the win.
Quote from: fatolaf on January 31, 2012, 11:28:39 am
Yep I had him game 1, awful experience and put me in such a bad mood, that the wknd was soured cold not give a hoot about my games anymore and simply went through the motions, conceding another 2 over the wknd.
I am sick to death of playing morose waac players which sadly seem to be breeding..Even on the bottom players, on day 2 there were still players acting this way sadly...
The sports points abuse was very concerning as well, and shame that many of us did not know the full rules for this, as I would have given my 1st opponent 0 out of 6, not 5 as Leggy put down, where as other players knew the scale existed and docked more than one point tactically, ie Ant Spiers..
I wonder if knowing your painting soft scores beforehand was a contributor to this abuse
Heya,
I didnt allow in the end anyone to drop more than 3 for sports, despite people asking - including about Rob. The worst I allowed was a three, which is what I gave Gary for you game against him. Nobody else requested to deduct him points, Marcus asked if he could and would think about it, so I think others saying they have are pulling your leg.
You'd think it was a really grumpy tournament reading these posts! But I'm sure it wasn't, and hope I can make it next year :thumbsup:
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 31, 2012, 06:11:21 pm
Hi Rob,
Unsure why you think this given that you have no idea of what actually happened and are presumably relying on (at best) second hand information.
I basically sat by the game for about 90% of it at the request of both players, and to be frank, it was the worst game of warhammer I have ever witnessesed. There were numerous rules arguments, serious accusations of cheating and banging of fists. This is from both sides, not just Ant. At one stage, I seriously thought they were about to have a fight. They even spent 2 minutes arguing about how they were going to add up the VP's for the game. To me, it was the very definition of a bad sports game from both sides and I thought that they would either both hit each other, or none at all. In the end, it only turned out to be Ant.
However, to put a couple of things to bed.
1. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to finish ahead of him. They both knew that Andy was ahead on both tournament and painting points prior to the game and with a draw even with a sports hit Ant knew he would finished behind him.
2. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to prevent him winning the event. Ant had no real idea of what anyone else was on and he was aware that the top 2 tables were only seperated by I think 1 point going into the last round, so with a draw he assumed they would lose it anyway. Their game also finished at least 70 minutes before anyone else so Ant could not have possibly known that it would cost him the win.
The plot thickens!
Quote from: Annie on January 31, 2012, 06:23:04 pm
The plot thickens!
Haha, anyone would think it was only toy soldiers!
Basically, Ant and Andy are typical brothers, both exceptionally competitive and it shows whenever they compete against each other. Sadly, this time, there just happened to be a tournament win on the cards. I am not saying what Ant did was right, but honestly it was not all one way traffic in the game.
Quote from: Chris Legg link=topic=2546.msg40010#msg40010Marcus asked if he could and would think about it, so I think others saying they have are pulling your leg.
Marcus wanted you to dock him, I think you tried to talk him out of it and a combo of his hangover may have led to confusion.
Real shame there then, only met one player who said he was okay to play against..
Shame only some people seemed to know how to dock sports...
I'm afraid if I see him in attendance at future slaughters , I won't attend...
To be fair I have lost any interest in events until the comp in general gets much much harder..So many bad match ups now in this game where one player has only a draw to aim for..
Don't get me wrong Leggy, I think you ran a good event as per usual, this was players faults not the events ..
Didn't actually realise it was like that with Ant and Andy, only having what Andy said to go on. Its weird as I've seena fair few of Andy's games and on the whole they have seemed very fun and good natured, I guess they really bring out the worst in each other. Thanks for clearing it up Leggy :-)
The fact Keith wanted to dock me the full 6 marks really irks me. Especially when I asked him why he said "wasn't anything regarding your demeanour, it was the army and the frustration of not even playing a game, it ruined my chances of getting anywhere near the top." Last time I ever buy him a beer.
Quote from: Chris Legg on January 31, 2012, 06:11:21 pm
1. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to finish ahead of him. They both knew that Andy was ahead on both tournament and painting points prior to the game and with a draw even with a sports hit Ant knew he would finished behind him.
First off Chris, Fantastic tournament. Really was the best run tournament I've been to and will alsmost certainly be attending next year as long as it doesn't clash with personal life. Everything was done very professioanly in my opinion. Even though I had my lowest ever tournament placing I got a lovly trophy out of it.
As to the sports issue. From what I gather Ant and Andy finished on the same Tournament points from gaming. Andy though was 2 points ahead on painting points though. So potentially (not saying this is why he did it but it could be a reason) if Ant gave Andy a 2 points sport hit, Ant would still be in the running for 1st place. Turns out he wouldn't have won it anyway on VP's. Of course this doesn't factor in the sports hit that Ant got that he couldn't know about.
So I'm not saying Ant did give the sports hit just to stay in with a chance of winning the tournament but it could be a factor. And as you say the game did seem to be bad tempered so it could be a genuine sports hit.
At no point were me and Ant going to fight, Leggy, and I never accused him of cheating through out the game. However, he accused me of cheating when I made two honest mistakes, 1 was saying the wrong stonethrower (I always fire my weakest stonethrower first, but for some reason I fired my stronger one first, then said the same warmachine to fire) but was corrected before any dice were rolled, the other was forgetting that ogres stopped cannon balls. The fact that Ant called me a "gamey !@%$#%@" for getting a single extra hammerer to get a supporting attack because of the Dwarf lord on shieldbearers double base was not on, moaning throughout the game for average artillery, neither was his arguementitive and unpleasant nature during the game, instantly jumping on any small mistake, claiming I was cheating as if the sky was falling down. If I was cheating, surely you or he would have pulled me up on it, which never happen - ergo, I didn't cheat. Making mistakes is not cheating - as you said to me after the game.
I never once banged my fist, raised my voice, or got arsey with him during the game, even though I had good cause to. The closest I got was when I told him to sit down and stop being an arse after he jumped up about stone thrower.
I am not overly competitive in the slightest as anyone who has played me will know and will testify. I was, would I be playing Dwarfs?
As for the discussion about the pursuit in to fresh enemy, that was a misunderstanding on my behalf, and even when I was trying to talk to you about it, so I can get it right in my head, Ant was very abrupt in the way he told me to "shut the !@%$#%@ up, get on with the game, and stop arguing with the ref's decision".
Ant once said that I would never place higher than him, never podium at an event with dwarves, and that he would win Sheffield without a problem. When we were discussing how we might have done ourselves out of a podium with our draw, we discussed what points we were on. Ant knew that I was 2 points ahead on paints, and funnily enough, he docked me 2 points. Its not the fact that he cost me the win, its the fact that he would dock me the points just so he could try and place higher than me (which he still wouldn't have done due to VP's, even if he wouldn't have been hit with sports afterwards).
Even if I had been a dick throughout the game, I would expect a friend, never mind my brother, to take to me to one side and ask what was that all about, and discuss it with me, not go up to the TO and ask for me to docked points. Its the first time I have ever been docked points for Sportsmanship since starting to attend tournaments over 6 years ago.
I have no intention of ever having anything else to do with my brother over this, especially as it has opened my eyes to everything that I have defended him over the past 6 years of not being like.
Finally, Leggy, I dont appreciate you going onto a forum and saying things that are not true, claiming that they are the truth. If you really thought that that was the worst game of warhammer you have ever seen, then why didn't you say something about it during the game, after the game, or when I talked to you after the event had finished?
Thanks for reading.
A
If you say so Andy. All I'm saying is that I've seen ETC games involving Greeks and Spainiards with less agitation going on at the table.
As I said above, I am not saying it was in any way mainly your fault for the game. And I meant what I said afterwards- that mistakes dont instantly mean cheating, but your brother evidently thought that you were and said this at several points. Whether he was correct or not is another matter, but that was clearly his perception of the incidents.
I didnt say you were overly competitive, I said you were typical brothers and in that you are competitive, whether you want to believe it or not. Not that this is even a bad thing in my opinion, as almost all of the most succesfull people in this world are exceptionally competitive. I would be exactly the same with my brother, no doubt about it.
Was he right? In my opinion, no, but its not my opinion on whether someone is cheating that counts when it comes to sportsmanship issues.
Re the two points- do you honestly not think that if he wanted to make certain he would simply have gone for the full 3 points off, rather than risk it on VP's?
Quote from: fatolaf on January 31, 2012, 06:45:26 pm
Real shame there then, only met one player who said he was okay to play against..
Not to "defend the indefensible" (as it sounds like your game vs gary was beyond terrible), but there is a long list of people I could point to who have enjoyed playing him before (maybe he was being a waac'er at this event though).
Sorry to bring it up again Ol, but he is really gutted about it (he really is a lovely bloke - hmmm sounding like I am defending a naughty pet here... lol ). Think with you and Wayne he may have gone hyper-borg as you are both such big names in the hobby.
Guess reason I bring this up is that public character smackdowns are a bit harsh - there are a LOT of players far better known than Gary (tournament "celebrities" even - I wont name names as not my place) on the scene who have given a lot of players torrid times/spoilt tournamnets, but they are accepted as almost institutions.
But anyway - Chris, hope you're not too put off by the odd disturbing story coming from it, vast majority of the feedback I've heard of the event was incredibly positive, and am gutted had to pull out.
Its weird. I wasn't there for any of his tournament games during the weekend, but I played Gary on the Friday night and had a good challenging game. Gary's not exactly gonna be winning any best sports trophies as hes a fairly quiet person but I have no problem with that. Not everyone is an entertaining outgoing person. Didn't see this coming though!
I guess the question is: What do you expect from your opponent during a game of Warhammer?
All I personally ask is that he doesn't cheat, and doesn't bitch and moan too much/get angry during game. Anything else is fine by me.
My friend Marcus Lake said playing Gary was one of the worts games he's ever played. Not just about attitude but also the fact that he was trying to cheat. Supposedly he was doing some major time wasting near the last rounds since he was getting beaten. Of course this is what I've been told so can't confirm it for 100% but since Marcus won the game in the end I can't see why he would lie.
Of course sometimes personalities just clash. I've played players that I've had bad games against such as Chris Tamplin who a lot of players say is terrible to play against. But I've also met people who have given him Best Sports points and said they had an sediment game against.
Quote from: Meals on February 01, 2012, 11:19:10 am
All I personally ask is that he doesn't cheat, and doesn't bitch and moan too much/get angry during game. Anything else is fine by me.
Yup, to me this is the minimum requirement for a game. Sure I'd love a brilliant game but that cannot happen everytime.
Quote from: Meals on February 01, 2012, 11:19:10 am
I guess the question is: What do you expect from your opponent during a game of Warhammer?
All I personally ask is that he doesn't cheat, and doesn't bitch and moan too much/get angry during game. Anything else is fine by me.
What about so drunk they barely know what they're doing? If so did you see my game 6 at the etc last year, it was an epic fail on my part, not my finest piece of tactical gaming for sure!
Personally I expect a bit of interaction from my opponent. Over the last 2-3 years gaming I've had 2 games which I'd classify as 'bad' experiences.
1. Opponent had his girlfriend at the table, sulked when he rolled a 1 to wound with a warmachine against me and still complianed about it 4 turns later as he was smashing me off the table. I had to put up with him splitting his attention between his girlfriend and the table with the occassional gloating about his army rolling over the top of me in a watchtower game where he started with 20 khorne warriors in the watchtower and I was playing WE. Best chat I had during the game was when he went to the bar and I got to briefly bring her out of her bored trance at the edge of the board.
2. The slowest opponent I've ever faced. Basically took ages to set up, then I got lucky to get T1 and got a comet off. This seemed to throw him into a total tailspin and he then took another 45 mins to do his T1. So 1.5hrs into the round we'd done 1 turn and he was saying that the game was over because of my 2 lucky things in T1. As I tried to play quick later was picking me up on not declaring the direction of salamander shots when I'd clearly measured my aim point during the move phase in positioning them. The chat between us during the game was fine but I hate not getting 6 turns in and his style of play meant it was never going to happen as he didn't push the pace after the slow start.
Quote from: Raffazza on February 01, 2012, 10:51:42 am
Not to "defend the indefensible" (as it sounds like your game vs gary was beyond terrible), but there is a long list of people I could point to who have enjoyed playing him before (maybe he was being a waac'er at this event though).
There were at least 2 more than me at Sheffield and a few I met over the wknd did not have good things to say.
QuoteThink with you and Wayne he may have gone hyper-borg as you are both such big names in the hobby.
But we are actually 2 of the least competitive players out there, so WTF is his idea acting like that with players who play for fun???
Have a think about that one and defend his actions then, and maybe even stop this Borg business, it will only encourage him by naming it, hence making it sound fun and not the disgraceful behaviour that it is..
Quote from: Meals on February 01, 2012, 11:19:10 am
I guess the question is: What do you expect from your opponent during a game of Warhammer?
Not cheat, not bitch,not slow play, not constantly try to question the rules, not try to break rules to their own advantage, ROLL THE DICE properly (this is something Gary did not do vs me, despite me telling him) and to at all times try to make sure both players are having fun whatever table you are on, what round it is etc..
This is a fun hobby even at tournament levels, there is no money involved, this is not a job, this is a social hobby...
It makes me so livid when I see people taking this so seriosuly and ruining peoples events, that we all pay good money for to have FUN!
Quote from: Dave on February 01, 2012, 12:25:16 pm
What about so drunk they barely know what they're doing? If so did you see my game 6 at the etc last year, it was an epic fail on my part, not my finest piece of tactical gaming for sure!
Personally I expect a bit of interaction from my opponent. Over the last 2-3 years gaming I've had 2 games which I'd classify as 'bad' experiences.
1. Opponent had his girlfriend at the table, sulked when he rolled a 1 to wound with a warmachine against me and still complianed about it 4 turns later as he was smashing me off the table. I had to put up with him splitting his attention between his girlfriend and the table with the occassional gloating about his army rolling over the top of me in a watchtower game where he started with 20 khorne warriors in the watchtower and I was playing WE. Best chat I had during the game was when he went to the bar and I got to briefly bring her out of her bored trance at the edge of the board.
2. The slowest opponent I've ever faced. Basically took ages to set up, then I got lucky to get T1 and got a comet off. This seemed to throw him into a total tailspin and he then took another 45 mins to do his T1. So 1.5hrs into the round we'd done 1 turn and he was saying that the game was over because of my 2 lucky things in T1. As I tried to play quick later was picking me up on not declaring the direction of salamander shots when I'd clearly measured my aim point during the move phase in positioning them. The chat between us during the game was fine but I hate not getting 6 turns in and his style of play meant it was never going to happen as he didn't push the pace after the slow start.
Given that I'm usually the drunkest one at the table I can't say I've had the expererience of playing against it, Dave. :thumbsup:
You are right though, getting 6 turns in is very important, and should be on the list. Don't usually complain about the GF thing though, never seen it as an issue
Ol, not trying to defend him in your game (or Marcus') - its clear that you both had terrible games, and as I said, he is gutted about it.
All I am saying is that most of the time he is fine - most of his opponents (and people he has talked to at events) have had games ranging from fun to fine. As has been said, he is not the most vibrant person at a table, and gets "the face" on perhaps too easily.
On a wider point, its probably not actually a bad thing if people who don't behave in the accepted fashion were named and shamed - (I completely agree that more and more people take things too seriously) could help with the situation in the future. Its just if we are doing that there are a lot of people who should be named and shamed (some of them, as I have said, who are "names" on the scene). Is the best way to do that publicly or quietly? No idea - have to say been lucky to have had enough good games I tend to blank out the bad ones- I also don't take any of this goodness that seriously.
On the cheating thing - thats totally unacceptable. Interesting point is how many of the top players get basic things completely wrong (either because they don't know the rules or because they "forget" in the head of the moment).
Quote from: Raffazza on February 01, 2012, 01:44:45 pm
(I completely agree that more and more people take things too seriously) could help with the situation in the future. Its just if we are doing that there are a lot of people who should be named and shamed (some of them, as I have said, who are "names" on the scene).
I always found it disgusting that Matt Howley was never punished for blatantly cheating for 2 years.
The fact that he could be at SCGT this year after having cheated 11 opponets for the previous 2 is staggering...
I do see both points of view, but if the "naming and shaming" is going to mean that Gary changes his way, when the alternative is to bitch behind his back without him knowing a thing about it, then I think this might be the more painful method, but it's the better method. Kinda like the difference between pulling off a plaster quickly... or just letting an opening pustule fester. (Sorry, I've been doing some work on my Nurgle WoC)
On the other side of the coin, I do cringe when I play people who have their own podcasts for how they might report me. One "name" managed to confuse me with another player and completely misreport the game, and then when we replayed he bitched about me being a bit of a rules lawyer (because I wanted to make sure that a failed terror test did in fact destroy a third of my army turn 2 rather than just take them off the table 1 second after failing the test, and when I managed to flank charge and destroy one of his cheap blocks because he didn't realise I could make the charge he got stroppy. Sorry that it'll only be a 19-1 instead of 20-0!!). Still he's a good guy, just a fine example of how if you're going to name and shame then it'd be a good idea to have a touch of introspection :wink;m::
Quote from: Meals on February 01, 2012, 01:27:26 pmYou are right though, getting 6 turns in is very important, and should be on the list. Don't usually complain about the GF thing though, never seen it as an issue
I didn't mind her being there but being ignored by my opponent and having to call for his attention when I rolled dice just irked me, I like my opponent to pay attention to the game.
Who needs named and shamed. I'm happy to name the people I've had issue with over the years, only let me look the names up so I spell it right! And I'd hope that where I've caused a bad game for someone else they'd come tell me, particularly as I typically try and sit down for a beer with them afterwards.
As for rules errors 'in the heat of the moment' vs just plain wrong I've seen a fair few from players who clearly don't know the rules. I've mixed myself up a couple of times myself so can see why it happens sometimes but with a quick reference to the book it's always been sorted. I've seen one or two times where people's interpretation has been rather favourable to them so I've requested a quick check where it's not met my understanding and don't think I've had one go against me (but that's probably just my 20:20 hindsight).
As for pure cheating it's ridiculous, why on earth would people do it... Toy soldiers with prizes of nothing but a plastic trophy in most cases doesn't ever seem like it's something worth getting that worked up over. Even if you throw in a £50 boxset as a prize I'm still not going to care.
Quote from: Undead Dan on February 01, 2012, 02:55:22 pm
Still he's a good guy, just a fine example of how if you're going to name and shame then it'd be a good idea to have a touch of introspection :wink;m::
Agreed...
I have played so many games over the last 2 years where I have let so many things slide (in their favour) and simply bitten my tongue, as I really cant be arsed with winning that much that getting into a bad tempered game is the last thing I want..
As this was game 1 and I had spoken to him the night before about my plea for a good fun game despite the score, I was very annoyed about how he appraoched it as soon as we started..
As it was with his tactics and list, it was going to be an uphill struggle for me to get anything out of the game, the least I expected was for some semblance of banter or emotion to make it a laugh despite me simply removing figures. I know many very good players who have destroyed me and yet the game has been great fun (Ches, Ben J for example)
As it was pulling teeth was more fun, not helped by his facebook chums (of which I know some) egging him on to make me 'rage quit' or 'ruin my hobby', of which I was the shown these messages as they came in. I mean seriously WTF was that about??
This combo was awful and I was simply counting down the minutes in my head as I was determined not to concede and reward his behaviour with a 20-0...
A horrible experience and something that several days on is making me angry still.
A hobby I have loved longer than some of these players have been on this earth has been slowly ruined not by 8th Ed rules (even though shadow magic does not help when you are a TK player) but by the increased WAAC attitude showed by some older players but increasingly in the next generation (so to speak), that now makes the prospect of tournie play for me in the future an abhorrant prospect instead of the usual fun lads wknd away with some plastic men and (in my case crap) dice rolling goodness...
You cannot help but wonder whether the advent of rankings and ETC qualification is a factor in this, increasing the competiveness of tournies in general...
Actually thinking about it I did have one player bad mouthing me after a game, but he was on a forum complaining about how he'd only ever lost 2 games with his high elves and both of them were to dwarven gunlines. Mine was not a gunline in most peoples eyes 3 WMs, 20 xbows and a gyrocopter does not make for a gunline to me but if that was his complaint rather than the way in which I played then I'm not going to hold myself up a responsible for that one.
I took my most WAAC list ever to Winter Incursion, had my best placing ever and had far less fun than my usual tournaments. Games 5 & 6 weren't that much fun. Now to give Mo his dues he was so hungover/such lack of sleep I was amazed he was still standing, but lacking in banter would be a fair description I hope he'll accept :wink;m:: Round 6 was the aforementioned 4 turn game.
Quote from: fatolaf on February 01, 2012, 03:08:24 pm
You cannot help but wonder whether the advent of rankings and ETC qualification is a factor in this, increasing the competiveness of tournies in general...
For 80-90% of tournament gamers I'd say it's made no difference at all.
There are those that will never care and the ETC is just another tournament they will not travel to because it's too far away. There are those who have the same opinion, they might follow the rankings for a laugh because they can look up their mates on there for some banter. There are those at the top end like Mr Curry who was all about smashing face in before the rankings existed and they haven't changed a single thing about how he plays the game.
But then there are those people who desperately want to go to the ETC. I'm not sure if Andy remembers we played in his first Fantasy tournament back on the scene at the Northern Warlords 2009 Tournament. He was pushing about a daemon army he'd borrowed to give fantasy a try. Was a fun game, both of us in relative mid table obscurity. What's he doing now? Well smashing up tournaments at the top end (on occassion) but also still playing daft pickup games vs the likes of me the night before a tournament where he still brings a hard army (and so was mine) but we had a right laugh about it and there wasn't any dicking about over rules quibbles (though I did show him a couple of genuinely gimicky tricks I'd picked up at the ETC in previous years in order to break down his defensive wall in front of his warmachines).
I dunno if his recent results are an effort to prove to the English ETC team that they've missed out in not having him but I'm sure it does no harm. But is that effecting the scene in a negative way? Personally I don't think so, barring the fact his army is pure filth :wink;m:: But then same guy takes a fluffy fun list to tempest, so can't help but feel that's something which has always been around the scene.
But I do agree there are more people taking this seriously than ever before. Perhaps it's the 'media'. Lots of focus on hard lists, top table action coming out of podcasts and twitter, not so much about someone taking a fun themed list and having 5/6 great games. So it develops an expectation in players who've not been to tournament but have listened to podcasts around what to expect and what they should do.
All very good points being bought up.
Now I know that I will never win best sports, even when I'm on my best behavouir and am likely to get the face on when I look over the table to see an army that I have no chancve against. Still, I have made a effort to try and make the games enjoyable for both my opponent and I and hope that the effort is welcomed.
I've only had 5 games that I can recall that I really didn't enjoy, and of those only 1 because of the list. The other 4 games were the opponent being just plain unpleasent, gamey, or trying to cheat (2 games were vs the same guy that had me being tempted to concede after turn 1 rather than spend any more time in their company).
I agree that some people take the game so seriously that its sometimes laughable, and unfortuately the worst offenders do tend to be interweb "celebz".
After Slaughter was my 1st major event since the end of 7th i have noticed a lot of changes in the scene, a lot of things that was basically self comped out is becoming the norm. The Slaughter has always been a great event, but tbh this year didn't feel the same. Maybe not having the TNG boys and some of the NWA not there maybe.
Leggy always runs a good event in the Slaughter but the scene has moved on a lot from when me and a few of the older school gamers used to play. OK, back in the day i took hard lists but i always tried to make the game interesting when using the Dragonline.
After playing another system for a while the soft scores are a bit of a pain, as i have gotten used to not having them influence your standings.
This is without one of the people that put me off from playing.
Quote from: Cyberactivity on February 01, 2012, 04:22:32 pm
I agree that some people take the game so seriously that its sometimes laughable, and unfortuately the worst offenders do tend to be interweb "celebz".
Not so sure about that sweeping statement, many of the so called celebs do indeed take games seriously but also are fun to play against. I have played many all of the top ranked players and all have been fine or fun.
But dont get me wrong, there are some top ranked players that I would never play , life is too short...
Quote from: Marauder Mitch on February 01, 2012, 04:30:05 pm
Maybe not having the TNG boys and some of the NWA not there maybe.
Agreed a lot of the 'old skool' player have been missing from events of late, either through rage quitting, block ticket buying from new clubs, having babies that sort of thing. Hence the Sat night was not anywhere near as good as it has been in the past...
Yeah, I guess it was kind of a sweeping statement but it was just from my experience.
Anyways, I remember when the scene use to self comp out the nastiest stuff and anyone that took those kinds of lists was treated like a pariah.
I find myself choosing events based on who else is going more often now, and then making sure that the comp is place is decent. I have no time for uncomp'd events (I know, how things have changed hey?) and want to know that my matyes will also be in attendance.
Quick question, what was Gary using?
Quote from: fatolaf on February 01, 2012, 01:24:40 pmBut we [referring to Ol & Wayne] are actually 2 of the least competitive players out there
I've played Wayne before he's quite competitive, don't believe the hobby hype!
Quote from: Undead Dan on February 01, 2012, 02:55:22 pmOn the other side of the coin, I do cringe when I play people who have their own podcasts for how they might report me.
Yeah I came off badly from a podcast report, after playing Wayne at the first Tempest he just referred to our game as negative. Just a negative game he kept saying without anything to back his statement up. It was only due to the fact I did something I guess he thought gamey. I killed his abomination and he took it off without rolling for it to come back (I'd forgotten as well). At the end of the game we had a combat where I forgot to attack (being distracted by a desperate need to go to the toilet) and I lost by 1 so fled. When I came back from the toliet I realised that I hadn't attacked and said can we roll which we did and my chariot ended up hitting enough to not lose combat and give the points. Then Wayne realised that he hadn't rolled for his abomination and wanted to roll for it to see if it came back. This had been a number of turns ago so I said no it was too late in the game, as if it had come back I would have had a chance to try and deal with it. Wayne didn't like this and said he'd have the chariot points back then. I just let it slide but this annoyed me since he'd ruled something like this against me at Pompey Pillage when playing Dan (I forgot to rally some fleeing troops and Dan said I couldn't rally for them as he wouldn't have a chance to get the points for them.)
So yeah Wayne wanting to do something he ruled against me doing at Pillage annoyed me especailly when he made out I ruined the game. Otherwise Wayne is a really ncie guy, sometimes the game gets to you and makes you behave in a way different to normal. Its done it to me a few times.
Gary uses book of hoeth shadow high elves, if memory serves, in a block of Phoenix guard. Never played him though so just from what I've seen on tables beside me.