This years Milton keynes Massacre will take place on Saturday 3rd September, This will be a 48 player WHFB tournament which will likely comprise of four games at 1,600 points.
Full details to come, this is just a note to put it in your diary, we have a new venue (same village) which does have a bar & a lot more space.
Mark Borland
Tournament Organizer
Milton Keynes Wargame Society
{added to calendar}
Great. I really enjoyed the last tournament. Will try to get 5-6 Channel 4 News Team Members to come along to this one.
Diary marked.
Details of this years Milton Keynes Massacre, it will take place at the Yardley Gobion (Just north of MK approx 6 miles from M1 junc 15) Recreation Centre (same village new venue with a bar).
The venue can accomodate 48 players with plenty of space, I have had to increase the cost of a ticket to £6 to cover costs & for this you will recieve:
Free tea & coffee.
4 games of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
1600 points per game, with two hours per game.
No Lords - putting more points into the army.
Fairly hard comp - as we wish to deter some of the more boring builds.
I will be taking reservations & require just the following information:
Player name
Club or Team(if any)
An email address to keep in contact
Places will be reserved until midnight 31st July after which any unsold places will go to the first players to pay, the event will be advertised on a number of club forums & by an email shot but will not be posted on TWF until after 31st July (this is to allow the maximum amount of time fo club players to secure tickets.).
Rules pack link below:
http://www.4shared.com/document/cKlh5Plv/Milton_Keynes_Massacre_2011.html?
Cheers
Mark Borland
Tournament Organizer
Milton Keynes Wargame Society
http://mkwgs.eamped.com/
in! a thousand times in!
Sign me up too please Mark - Steve Hursell
Unfortunately I'm at a wedding in North Yorkshire that weekend.
i may be in for this
I'd like to go to this, put me down of a place please!
So I had reserved me +5 places, so far we have
Ol
Tom H
Steve
Lee
Ben
Anymore chaps?
Great venue, great pub and not far away...
Looks good, count me in!
Jack
Ol Knesebeck
Tom Hale
Steve Hursell
Lee Palmer
Ben Hodges
Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett
@ Mark - Can you put these down as our reserved tickets, even though I am sure we will have more to come...
Thanks Ol, Including your team 34 places where picked up in the first 24 hours, i will post up a current entrants list on Monday to allow some of the folk to check email/forums etc at the weekend.
Cheers
Mark
Entrants update, with a massive 46 entrants in one week, just two places left.
No Name Club
1 Matt Armstrong Brighton Warlords
2 Dave Napier Channel 4 News Team
3 Lewis Smith Channel 4 News Team
4 Marus Lake Channel 4 News Team
5 Mohammad Ashraf Channel 4 News Team
6 Tom Cowlin Channel 4 News Team
7 Yavor Bidzhov Channel 4 News Team
8 Albert James Barr Independent
9 John Westlee Barr Independent
10 Ben Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
11 Jim Moore Milton Keynes Wargame Society
12 John Kitchen Milton Keynes Wargame Society
13 Matt Perriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
14 Paul Godbold Milton Keynes Wargame Society
15 Richard Harriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
16 Shaun Mitchell Milton Keynes Wargame Society
17 Steve Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
18 Steve Knight Milton Keynes Wargame Society
19 Tony Hayle Milton Keynes Wargame Society
20 Alex Read Northampton Warlords
21 Rupert Read Northampton Warlords
22 Samuel Cook Northampton Warlords
23 Ben Hodges OG Games
24 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games
25 Lee Palmer OG Games
26 Ol Knesebeck OG Games
27 Steve Hursell OG Games
28 Tom Hale OG Games
29 Ben Harris Phoenix gaming club
30 Darrell Lee Phoenix gaming club
31 Julie Stephens Phoenix gaming club
32 Warren Stephens Phoenix gaming club
33 Adam Hutchinson SQUIG
34 Alan Thompson SQUIG
35 Ben Halford SQUIG
36 Dave McDermott SQUIG
37 Joel Henry SQUIG
38 Mark White SQUIG
39 Nick Bunting SQUIG
40 Paul Thompson SQUIG
41 Alex Clark The Croydon Massive
42 Glen Hoskins The Croydon Massive
43 Josh Dutton The Croydon Massive
44 Rob Bradley The Croydon Massive
45 Stu Lidbetter The Croydon Massive
46 James Staples Watford Wargames Club
47
48
Me!
(Freddy the Flail marches forth...)
i'm planning on running people over with brettonians for this one (or bouncing horribly....we shall see)
I can confirm that I will be breaking the Halflings out for this one. Now, to Arachnarok or not to arachnarok?
Quote from: Blotthrower on June 15, 2011, 08:34:28 am
I can confirm that I will be breaking the Halflings out for this one. Now, to Arachnarok or not to arachnarok?
The cow was looking great on last update, you have to do it!
Quote from: Crompton on June 15, 2011, 08:35:43 am
The cow was looking great on last update, you have to do it!
Damm right.... :thumbsup:
Don't suppose there is any spots left or reserve list for this? In relative travelling time, MK is practically next door. Love the fact that it's a straight line Welwyn to MK so reduced possibility of getting lost (*will never drive to Norwich again, some of the villages are like The Village*)
Mark, I don't think I can make this now... Can you allocate my spot to someone else please?
Cheers
Quote from: Steve H on June 29, 2011, 09:25:56 am
Mark, I don't think I can make this now... Can you allocate my spot to someone else please? Cheers
Thanks Steve, have done, down to just 55 entrants for the 48 places now.
Mark
Hi all, after another weeks payments in a couple of drop-outs, current entrants list below, as noted before all places are held until 31st July after which places will be allocated to paid entrants (indicated by P)
No Name Club Paid
1 Matt Armstrong Brighton Warlords
2 Michael Pike Brighton Warlords P
3 Tomasz Sajewicz Brighton Warlords P
4 Dave Napier Channel 4 News Team
5 Hristo Nikolov Channel 4 News Team
6 Lewis Smith Channel 4 News Team
7 Marus Lake Channel 4 News Team
8 Matt Turnbridge Channel 4 News Team
9 Mohammad Ashraf Channel 4 News Team
10 Tom Cowlin Channel 4 News Team
11 Yavor Bidzhov Channel 4 News Team
12 Albert James Barr Independent
13 John Westlee Barr Independent
14 Ben Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
15 Jim Moore Milton Keynes Wargame Society P
16 John Kitchen Milton Keynes Wargame Society
17 Matt Perriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
18 Paul Godbold Milton Keynes Wargame Society
19 Richard Harriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
20 Steve Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
21 Steve Knight Milton Keynes Wargame Society P
22 Tony Hayle Milton Keynes Wargame Society
23 Samuel Cook Northampton Warlords P
24 Ben Hodges OG Games
25 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games
26 Lee Palmer OG Games
27 Ol Knesebeck OG Games
28 Steven Akinlade OG Games P
29 Tom Hale OG Games
30 Ben Harris Phoenix gaming club P
31 Darrell Lee Phoenix gaming club
32 Julie Stevens Phoenix gaming club
33 Warren Stevens Phoenix gaming club
34 Adam Hutchinson SQUIG P
35 Alan Thompson SQUIG P
36 Ben Halford SQUIG P
37 Dave McDermott SQUIG P
38 Joel Henry SQUIG
39 Mark White SQUIG P
40 Nick Bunting SQUIG P
41 Paul Thompson SQUIG P
42 Alex Clark The Croydon Massive
43 Glen Hoskins The Croydon Massive
44 Josh Dutton The Croydon Massive
45 Rob Bradley The Croydon Massive
46 Stu Lidbetter The Croydon Massive
47 James Staples Watford Wargames Club
48 John Masters Watford Wargames Club
R1 Gary Jeffery OG Games
R2 Alex Jarosz Independent
R3 John Graham Bedford Gladiators
R4 John Graham +1 Bedford Gladiators
Regards
Mark Borland
Tournament Organizer
Milton Keynes Wargame Society
Rulespack attached to first post..
I will get my money to you this week Mark
Mark
A couple of rulespack questions..
1) No cap at all on PD per spell? DE can chuck 12PD at Mindrazor!
2) No ban on the powerscroll??
Apart from those, it is quite a good pack
Quote from: fatolaf on July 18, 2011, 12:14:29 pm
2) No ban on the powerscroll??
Don't think it's necessary, the house rules state you only get IF on a double 6 - so powerscroll is useless.
Quote from: fatolaf on July 18, 2011, 12:14:29 pm
Mark
A couple of rulespack questions..
1) No cap at all on PD per spell? DE can chuck 12PD at Mindrazor! - I will review this as i am looking at a v1.2 with very small tweeks so probably allow 7 dice
2) No ban on the powerscroll?? As noted above, the "Feel the pain scetion" whilst not banning simply makes a load of items & abilities redundant inc power scroll.
Apart from those, it is quite a good pack - cheers
As for the DE buddy, dont let them have 7PD, its getting common for that rule to be comped out now, there is no place for that rule in 8th ed and especially not at 1600 pts buddy, would be far too powerful and they will dominate the event (as per sodding usual)..
6Pd cap same as everyone else IMO...
Just a quick bump on payment, I will send out a final reminder Friday, but on Monday i will advertise unpaid places on TWF.
I currently have the following players from OG booked:
23 Ben Hodges OG Games
24 Gary Jeffery OG Games
25 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games
26 Lee Palmer OG Games
27 Ol Knesebeck OG Games
28 Steven Akinlade OG Games P
29 Tom Hale OG Games
Cheers
Mark
What is the paypal address buddy, I will get my payment out asap...
Quote from: fatolaf on July 26, 2011, 03:09:26 pm
What is the paypal address buddy, I will get my payment out asap...
Hi £6 gift to borland.mark@talk21.com
Cheers
Mark
Done :beer2:
Money just sent for me and Lee buddy
Cheers Gary / Ol, just a few OG guys outstanding although I think Tom is going to Tempest.
Ben Hodges
Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett
Tom Hale
Mark
O forgot about this,
Will send money tommorow for any of the Channel 4 News Team members that can still make it.
Quote from: Viruk on July 28, 2011, 10:58:07 am
O forgot about this,
Will send money tommorow for any of the Channel 4 News Team members that can still make it.
Thanks I will send a final email shot out on Friday, a number of players have pledged to pay at the end of the month.
I will publish unslod places on TWF early next week, probably Tuesday.
Mark
Paypal done. Cheers Mark, looking forward to it!
Don't think Ben Hodges can make this, if he hasn't let you know already
Thanks Ben has let me know he cant make it.
I now have 48 entrants with about 30 having paid & will be advertising unpaid places on TWF after the weekend.
Mark
Finally got round to paying for this, cheers mark
Updated entrants list, two places left, would be good to get some lists in, only two recieved so far.
I sent a questionaire out regarding the inclusion of the new VC options available in White Dwarf, most players where positive so I have elected to allow them with the following restrictions:
Maximum of ONE Ethereal Character
Maximum of TWO Ethereal Units - The Coach will count as ethereal for this purpose.
No Name Club
1 John Graham Bedford Gladiators
2 John Graham +1 Bedford Gladiators
3 Matt Armstrong Brighton Warlords
4 Michael Pike Brighton Warlords
5 Tomasz Sajewicz Brighton Warlords
6 Hristo Nikolov Channel 4 News Team
7 Lewis Smith Channel 4 News Team
8 Marcus Lake Channel 4 News Team
9 Mohammad Ashraf Channel 4 News Team
10 Tyler Pudding Channel 4 News Team
11 Yavor Bidzhov Channel 4 News Team
12 Alexi Bird Hydra Club
13 James Bearmen Hydra Club
14 Ryan Mclellan Hydra Club
15 Rhys Sinden Hydra Club
16 Albert James Barr Independent
17 Sandy Wilson Independent
18 Alexander Jarosz Kettering Games Club
19 Ben Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
20 Jim Moore Milton Keynes Wargame Society
21 Matt Perriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
22 Paul Godbold Milton Keynes Wargame Society
23 Steve Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
24 Steve Knight Milton Keynes Wargame Society
25 Tony Hayle Milton Keynes Wargame Society
26 Samuel Cook Northampton Warlords
27 Gary Jeffery OG Games
28 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games
29 Lee Palmer OG Games
30 Ol Knesebeck OG Games
31 Steven Akinlade OG Games
32 Tom Hale OG Games
33 Norbert Linke OUW
34 Ben Harris Phoenix gaming club
35 Darrell Lee Phoenix gaming club
36 Julie Stevens Phoenix gaming club
37 Warren Stevens Phoenix gaming club
38 Adam Hutchinson SQUIG
39 Alan Thompson SQUIG
40 Ben Halford SQUIG
41 Dave McDermott SQUIG
42 Mark White SQUIG
43 Nick Bunting SQUIG
44 Paul Thompson SQUIG
45 Simon Brown SQUIG
46 Chris Bowbrick Warhamsters
47
48
Mark
Money sent to re-grab my spot... Cheers Mark!
This now means that OG can now field the "Magnificent Seven"
:fighting03: :hobbyhorse: :sniper: :fighting04: :bangbang: :ninja: :endit:
which one is going to Yul Brenner?
I´ll get my list in by the wknd buddy, can all the other Oggers do the same...???
List sent hope it not to filthy
I'm hoping to debut my arabian tomb kings for this, assuming I can get them painted in time!
Quote from: jackhoneysett on August 17, 2011, 11:03:26 am
I'm hoping to debut my arabian tomb kings for this, assuming I can get them painted in time!
What are you thinking of taking in the list buddy, 1600pts is a tough call for TK...
Cant fit all the toys in, hard to know which tangent to go for, magic & shooting, monster mash, just 1 mage, choices choices, not sure how good TK will be at that level...
I know, I'm pretty sure it will be garbage! Mostly restricted by what I'm likely to paint.
I'm thinking of lvl 2, casket and hierotitan to give enough bound spells to make a reasonable magic phase. 40 archers, warsphinx (mumak!) and 3 chariots to protect them. 18 tomb guard with necrotect (unless I can get some decent buff spells I don't expect these to be all that good...). A skull chucker in case of aboms etc.
Im thinking, one lvl 2 in a unit of 20 archers, then 6 chariots, 4 snakes, carrion, 2 sphinxes and a casket maybe just chuck 6PD a turn on it....
i think i'm borrowing james Bretts for this :hobbyhorse:
I'll be beasting people up... Lore of the wild FTW!!!
Quote from: sainthale1988 on August 17, 2011, 01:53:48 pm
i think i'm borrowing james Bretts for this :hobbyhorse:
A good plan at this points level me thinks....
list sent today Mark...
The event is now full with one reserve (list below) An updated FAQ is attached.
I have only revieved 8 army lists from 49 players, If the lists are not recieved by Monday 29th August (I am away at Carnage this weekend) you will incur a 5 point late list penalty, please can you pass this onto your gaming groups.
No Name Club Army
1 John Graham Bedford Gladiators
2 John Graham +1 Bedford Gladiators
3 Matt Armstrong Brighton Warlords Beastmen
4 Michael Pike Brighton Warlords
5 Tomasz Sajewicz Brighton Warlords
6 Hristo Nikolov Channel 4 News Team
7 Lewis Smith Channel 4 News Team
8 Marcus Lake Channel 4 News Team
9 Mohammad Ashraf Channel 4 News Team Lizardmen
10 Tyler Pudding Channel 4 News Team
11 Yavor Bidzhov Channel 4 News Team
12 Alexi Bird Hydra Club
13 James Bearmen Hydra Club
14 Ryan Mclellan Hydra Club
15 Rhys Sinden Hydra Club
16 Albert James Barr Independent Skaven
17 Alexander Jarosz Kettering Games Club Empire
18 Ben Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
19 James Baker Milton Keynes Wargame Society
20 Jim Moore Milton Keynes Wargame Society
21 Matt Perriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society
22 Paul Godbold Milton Keynes Wargame Society High Elves
23 Steve Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society
24 Steve Knight Milton Keynes Wargame Society
25 Tony Hayle Milton Keynes Wargame Society
26 Samuel Cook Northampton Warlords
27 Gary Jeffery OG Games
28 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games
29 Lee Palmer OG Games
30 Ol Knesebeck OG Games Tomb Kings
31 Steven Akinlade OG Games Skaven
32 Steve Hursell OG Games
33 Tom Hale OG Games
34 Norbert Linke OUW
35 Ben Harris Phoenix gaming club
36 Darrell Lee Phoenix gaming club Warriors of Chaos
37 Julie Stevens Phoenix gaming club
38 Warren Stevens Phoenix gaming club
39 Adam Hutchinson SQUIG
40 Alan Thompson SQUIG
41 Ben Halford SQUIG
42 Dave McDermott SQUIG
43 Mark White SQUIG
44 Nick Bunting SQUIG
45 Paul Thompson SQUIG
46 Sandy Wilson Independent
47 Simon Brown SQUIG
48 Chris Bowbrick Warhamsters
Updated FAQ:
You mention a max of 3 power dice added a phase, no mention of dispel dice is that also capped at 3?
No there is no limit to dispel dice that can be generated.
Does the cap of 40 models include detachment's?
No detachments are not included in the cap, just the parent unit.
Does the hellblaster count as 30 shots?, Does the cannon count as 1 or 10.
To work out your maximum shots, use the maximum standard shots, i.e. a blowpipe is 2 & a High Elf repeater bolt thrower will be 6, anything that generates a random number of shots counts as the minimum number of shots with a minimum of 1.
Do characters count as units for the minimum six units limit?
No, you need six units plus characters, also all your warmachines only count as 1 unit.
Does the Tomb Kings Heirophant count as a different character choice to the Liche Priest for army selection purposes.
Yes, in the same way that a BSB counts as a different choice to a normal hero, you may take two Liche Priests, one of whom must be the Heirophant.
The new Vampire Counts Characters & Monster in the latest White Dwarf may be taken with the following additional restrictions:
Ethereal Characters 0 – 1
Combined Ethereal Characters & Units 0 - 2
Mark Borland
Tournament Organizer
Milton Keynes Wargame Society
Lee, Gary, Jack and Stevo, you need to get your lists in before Friday, or else you get docked points...
will do, just debating what to take!
Same here - don't think I'll get my TKs painted in time. Thinking of turning good for the day and borrowing a high elf army for a bit of fun.
List emailled.
Quote from: Garzini on August 22, 2011, 06:27:53 pm
List emailled.
Hi mate where to as not recieved yesterday, will check again later.
Cheers
mark
Quote from: khaosgoblin on August 23, 2011, 10:07:59 am
Hi mate where to as not recieved yesterday, will check again later.
Cheers
mark
your talk21 email address. didn't leave my outbox till 10:28pm.
List for Steven done and sent.
when do I send Steven a copy ?
Asd late as possible to allow no planning!
Also, pm me a copy so I can see what madness you've created!
Absolutely do not send Lee a copy.. THESE LISTS ARE SECRET until the morning of the MK massacre!
Hey Mark, have you still got places for this?
Quote from: Steve H on August 25, 2011, 11:50:46 pm
Absolutely do not send Lee a copy.. THESE LISTS ARE SECRET until the morning of the MK massacre!
I made and sent my list to Garzini. Mainly to proof check it and to let him know what models he needs to take.
I guess people might need to know what models to bring... I'm picking up Sim's HEs on Monday-
Lee, could you pm him and let him know what I'll need?
That way he can get them ready for me, and the cat will still be in the bag until you unleash the madness next saturday!
I've sent steven's list to steven and Mark.
Quote from: noahtonkin on August 25, 2011, 11:58:43 pm
Hey Mark, have you still got places for this?
Hi Noah, full at the moment, but no reserves, so a fair chance of a last minute drop out.
If you pm me your mobile, I can get in contact should a place come up.
Cheers
Mark
will have a chat at cardiff mate.
been looking a train tickets they are about 20-30 quid if it cost that much i might have to forfeit my place as i cant afford that, if any one finds any cheaper let me know.
blah founs some for £14 leaving euston and getting to milton in about 30 min
http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable
I am unfortunately going to have to drop out of this (unfortunate family event). which leaves a space for Noah.
was really looking forward to this (I only really planned on going to 1 non-london event, and I enjoyed MKM a lot last year.)
OK, means writing some lists then!
Hi Conformation that Noah swaps with Gary.
Also, lists,lists,lists :bash;m:
Mark
Now have 46 out of 48 lists in & the breakdown is as follows:
15% High Elves
15% Warriors of Chaos
11% Skaven
9% Dark Elves
9% Orcs & goblins
9% The Empire
7% Beastmen
4% Bretonians
4% Dwarfs
4% Lizardmen
4% Vampire Counts
2% Daemons of Chaos
2% Ogre Kingdoms
2% Tomb Kings
2% Wood Elves
All 15 books represented with High Elves & Warriors of Chaos the most popular choice & daemons as the joint least popular choice,
So just like most standard tournaments :))
Thanks to Noah for stepping in with a last hurrah for the OK.
Mark
Good god man, not read the comp but you must have done something really special to stop the Dark Elves being the usual 20%+ of the field :))
Quote from: Undead Dan on August 29, 2011, 02:32:44 pm
Good god man, not read the comp but you must have done something really special to stop the Dark Elves being the usual 20%+ of the field :))
To be honest Dan, I think its mainly the players, as they are choosing to come to a low power (no lords 1600 points) one day event for four games, theres no big cash investment required & at worst its only a day out to try something different, I have had some fab armies in so far, some of which I will post up after the event, but some examples below
Empire without Stank
All cavalry WOC
Several armies with just a single character, in a couple with less than 100 points on heroes
Some armies with no magic at all
I do love the big events, but know what it is to suffer with the fluffier armies for two days of battering, so hopefully some other TO's will put on single day events that are not the standard 3 games 2400, which people often treat as a warm up for a bigger event.
Good luck at Tempest mate, they are the best big events & this one sounds ace with the extra monsters.
Mark
Alright boys, the trains from clapham to MK suck, so we've gotta go from euston
the trains are 7.35 from euston on saturday
Outward Journey (03 Sep 2011)
Depart Arrive Duration
07:35 London Euston 08:05 Milton Keynes Central 00h 30
tickets £14 from thetrainline.com
First round draw below:
Table Name Club Army
1 James Baker Milton Keynes Wargame Society Bretonians
1 Ryan Mclellan Hydra Club High Elves
2 Hristo Nikolov Channel 4 News Team Dwarfs
2 Sandy Wilson SQUIG The Empire
3 Ben Halford SQUIG Skaven
3 Yavor Bidzhov Channel 4 News Team Warriors of Chaos
4 Tony Hayle Milton Keynes Wargame Society The Empire
4 Chris Bowbrick Warhamsters High Elves
5 Alexi Bird Hydra Club Vampire Counts
5 Lee Palmer OG Games Orcs & Goblins
6 Rhys Sinden Hydra Club Warriors of Chaos
6 Dave McDermott SQUIG High Elves
7 Marcus Lake Channel 4 News Team Daemons of Chaos
7 Steve Hursell OG Games Dark Elves
8 Greg Marshall Brighton Warlords Warriors of Chaos
8 Nick Bunting SQUIG Lizardmen
9 Paul Godbold Milton Keynes Wargame Society High Elves
9 Darrell Lee Phoenix gaming club Warriors of Chaos
10 Matt Perriss Milton Keynes Wargame Society Warriors of Chaos
10 Alan Thompson SQUIG Dark Elves
11 Noah Tonkin OG Games Ogre Kingdoms
11 Albert James Barr Independent Skaven
12 Simon Brown SQUIG High Elves
12 Ben Harris Phoenix gaming club Daemons of Chaos
13 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett OG Games High Elves
13 Warren Stevens Phoenix gaming club The Empire
14 Paul Thompson SQUIG Orcs & Goblins
14 Norbert Linke OUW Orcs & Goblins
15 Steven Akinlade OG Games Skaven
15 Alexander Jarosz Kettering Games Club The Empire
16 James Bearmen Hydra Club Warriors of Chaos
16 Samuel Cook Northampton Warlords Skaven
17 Lewis Smith Channel 4 News Team Warriors of Chaos
17 Andrew Dunn Bedford Gladiators Orcs & Goblins
18 Mohammad Ashraf Channel 4 News Team Beastmen
18 Tom Hale OG Games Bretonians
19 Dave Adair Milton Keynes Wargame Society High Elves
19 Matt Armstrong Brighton Warlords Beastmen
20 Steve Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society Vampire Counts
20 Tomasz Sajewicz Brighton Warlords Skaven
21 Mark White SQUIG Beastmen
21 Ben Hampshire Milton Keynes Wargame Society Dark Elves
22 Ol Knesebeck OG Games Tomb Kings
22 Jim Moore Milton Keynes Wargame Society Lizardmen
23 John Graham Bedford Gladiators Dwarfs
23 Julie Stevens Phoenix gaming club Dark Elves
24 Steve Knight Milton Keynes Wargame Society Wood Elves
24 Adam Hutchinson SQUIG Warriors of Chaos
I always play Marcus these days!!! At least there's a good chance he would have been out clubbing for 3 days beforehand!!!
Oh Palmer, Orcs, vs VC... you'll be fine!!! :)
Quote from: Steve H on August 30, 2011, 09:54:15 am
I always play Marcus these days!!! At least there's a good chance he would have been out clubbing for 3 days beforehand!!!
I sure hope not he's supposed to be driving us up there!!! Then again being drunk doesn't seem to affect his Warhammer skills.
Got my ticket for the 7.35am love train.
Quote from: jackhoneysett on August 30, 2011, 12:00:10 pm
Got my ticket for the 7.35am love train.
tickets also bought for me and steven...
Battle of the sponsors for me, Jim and his LM could be a tough match up for me at this points level (TK list is tiny), however I do have a casket, so I do have a small chance.... :cool3:
trains booked for me :thumbsup:
Noah you will need to let Mark have your list, as I gave you the only copy....
How much does booking the tickets in advance save you?
I'm pretty sure we have a spare space in our car. Leaving from Uxbridge earlyish. Not sure if anyone wants to travel all that way or even if it would be cheaper.
Quote from: Steve H on August 30, 2011, 02:11:46 pm
How much does booking the tickets in advance save you?
about £10, so worth doing, just book now, and pick up on the day...
Which train are we getting? off peak on anytime is the question.?
yes what train are we exepected to come back on? going to buy mine this morning. open return or do we have one in mind?
I've got open return as we will miss whatever train we aim to get!
7.35 outward, open return it is then!
Ah, question number 2. do i need to get the ticket for any virgin train, or just any train?!
yeah there is a virgin and a midlands train leaving euston at 7:35 and both arrive at MK central at 8:05.........but midlands train is £3 cheaper........
was there? didn't see that, only saw the virgin train on the train line. that's the one ive gone for now... am i going to be billy no mates on the train up...?!
I didn't realise there was a choice either - turns out I'm on the virgin train too
Not on my own! Drinky time?! :beer2:
right, must stop this, have 50 gnoblars to paint! (please please please dont let my ogre book arrive oday, really don't need the distractions!)
train booked. just need to sort toys and write a few copies of my list out and i'm ready :hobbyhorse: :hobbyhorse: :hobbyhorse:
Me and Steven are on Virgin train as well, never saw the other one (think this might be a mistake like last year, 2 trains at same time both going to MK).
See you there chaps, bright and early...
Ok, last minute entry ftw! Train is booked. Now to wait patiently until I find out what Daemonic insanity Mo gives me to play with.
Tom, can you please bring all my dice and stuff that are in the bag I gave you yesterday?
Ace, another one in! All aboard the Jager train!
i'm i the only person not on the virgin train???? :sad;m:
sure james, i'll bring the bag as is, and a seperate bag with my dice etc in so no problems
Quote from: maelzch on September 02, 2011, 02:44:16 pm
Ace, another one in! All aboard the Jager train!
Don't forget your army Palmer!!!
All aboard the Jager train... whoo whoo!
I'm on the Midlands train, as I found no option of a Virgin Train. To be honest, I'll just hop on the virgin train if I can (assuming they are in fact different trains...) and claim ignorance... Its good to be a "tourist"
aww, or you could joint tom on the other train...
Im buying my ticket when I get there so I'll be getting on the one where people are nicer to me!
Quote from: Steve H on September 02, 2011, 02:56:35 pm
Im buying my ticket when I get there so I'll be getting on the one where people are nicer to me!
so your not getting on a train to milton keynes then :wink;m::
I've sent list off for you James to Mark. Not sure if the list is fluffy, cheesy, fun, boring, good or just plain crap. So we'll have to wait and see. I think it is different to the standard Daemon lists though which I think is the main point.
Remember to bring lots of assorted movement trays :thumbsup:
Unless you can't be bothered to bring everything. Let me know if you want to see the list and I'll send you the list tonight by PM.
50 gnoblars, painted, dipped and based (kind of) just waiting to drybrush the bases and i'm done!
Well done everyone! Particularly proud of all of you who used insane lists and did ok (apart from Palmer who got bummed :-D )
Euston is a creepy place at night. Love you all! x
SpooOoooooon!
cheers guys, was a fantastic day. and you're right euston is a bit creepy after dark...
I think this counts as a good day out for me! Possibly my jammiest day ever, basically got paid to eat burger king, then won a carry case (as the spoon) and got 4 free beers on the train!
QuoteBest Army Votes
Ol Knesebeck Tomb Kings 3
Not bad since the army is not even finished yet, but nice (winner got 56 votes )
QuoteMost sporting player votes.
James Milner Daemons of Chaos 1
Lee Palmer Orcs & Goblins 1
Noah Tonkin Ogre Kingdoms 1
Ol Knesebeck Tomb Kings 1
Steve Hursell Dark Elves 1
Tom Hale Bretonians 1
Winner got 3 votes, good showing from the boys
QuoteTournament Results below:
Position Player TP VP
1 Marcus Lake 72 6972
2 Albert James Barr 65 5892
3 Lewis Smith 64 5741
4 Tom Hale 63 4241
5 Norbert Linke 58 5052
6 Hristo Nikolov 57 4405
7 Steve Knight 56 3258
8 Jack 'The shuffle' Honeysett 55 4504
9 Sandy Wilson 52 3914
10 Alan Thompson 51 4509
11 Adam Hutchinson 51 4124
12 Ben Hampshire 51 4092
13 Ryan Mclellan 51 2720
14 Jim Moore 50 4131
15 Greg Marshall 50 3438
16 Matt Perriss 49 4317
17 Ol Knesebeck 48 2335
18 Yavor Bidzhov 47 4270
19 Paul Godbold 46 3325
20 Simon Brown 43 3934
21 Mohammad Ashraf 41 3378
22 Tomasz Sajewicz 40 3524
23 James Baker 39 4577
24 Dave McDermott 39 3076
25 Tony Hayle 38 3730
26 Dave Adair 38 3288
27 Steve Hursell 37 3544
28 Ben Harris 36 2950
29 Alexi Bird 35 3669
30 Nick Bunting 35 2741
31 John Graham 34 3427
32 James Milner 34 2711
33 Warren Stevens 32 1896
34 Paul Thompson 31 3419
35 Julie Stevens 30 2997
36 Alexander Jarosz 30 2598
37 Darrell Lee 29 2515
38 Ben Halford 26 2678
39 Matt Armstrong 24 3299
40 Samuel Cook 24 3136
41 John Kitchen 23 2387
42 Andrew Dunn 21 3266
43 Noah Tonkin 20 2368
44 Mark White 16 2893
45 Rhys Sinden 9 1682
46 Lee Palmer 0 1430
Well done to Tom and Jack for there placings, Tom doing well with Bretts as predicted, few armies at this points level could cope with lots of Cav at that points level. And Jack doing well with his FireMage Dragon, probably a bit too good at this level and possibly the least silly list written.
As for Lee, staggering result mate,
NOT ONE POINT :))
Not sure how that was possible as his list was not exactly poop... :thumbsup:
As for my showing, 2 draws against WE and HE did not help, and my last game despite being a brutal affair ended with me only winning 11-9 against HE, which should have been a big win to me but I made one error putting the Sphinx into the White lions one turn too early (they had flaming sword on them from an IF which killed his mage), If I had waited, it would have forced his hand and caused him problems.
My first game against Jim's LM gave me a big win, 17-3, which was basically the power of KB's from the Sphinx and the snakes.
Not sure how good TK are at this points level, would have liked to be more aggressive but could not do it with the list I had:
Quotelvl 2 Heiro
Lvl 2 light
10 Archers
19 Archers
3 Chariots
3 Chariots
4 Snakes
3 Carrion
3 Carrion
Casket
Necro Sphinx
What I should have done was take 2 lvl 2's both with the Nehek Lore and then got a much better chance of getting Smiting (which I never got once), which would have really helped me push the army more. As it was, I played safe (nothing I could do in my 2 game to prevent the draw) and was unbeaten, which I think only 3 people were on the day.
Great new venue, good comp from Mark (but some work of course needed with the Daemons as they were essentially running around with lvl 4 horror blocks), a well run day as per usual.
And a typically fun OG day out with British Bulldog, Flying Doctors, Stevo getting totally 'tired and emotional', train delays and drunken Euston ramblings all thrown in the mix.... :))
QuoteAnd a typically fun OG day out with British Bulldog, Flying Doctors, Stevo getting totally 'tired and emotional', train delays and drunken Euston ramblings all thrown in the mix.... :))
Good summary of the day mate!
A good day out all in all.
4 games of fantasy in a day were certainly interesting...
list was written by ol and as follows...
General Spangleshard. gw, ha, dragonhelm and the spangleshard (gives you a ward save of what ever the to wound roll was...plus you have to shout out WOOF! very loudly if you make a successful save)
butcher with the bangstick and dragonbane gem
4x3bulls, ahw and musician.
4 leadbelchers, mus
5 leadbelchers, mus
10 gnoblar trappers
40 gnoblars in hoarde
maneater with gw.
Apologies for not knowing anyone's names.
game 1
vs skaven. the guy ended up second.
got 20-0ed. skaven ogres not an ideal match up, but msu ogres could have swung it rather nicely!
single maneater ran around the side of his army and took off 2 a unit of rats, was heading for his cannon then it blew itself up. leadbelchers failed to kill 10 gutter runners in a building...over 3 turns.
Lack of a bsb ment when his cannon hit 1 unit, the template hitting 3 ogres, killed them all and paniced the 2 flanking ogre units kind of put an end to my entire army... Doh!
game 2 vs warriors.
looked at the match up and it looked horrible.
big block of tzeench warriors (i later found out had a 4+ward from a banner) hoarde of 50 khorne marauders with flails, 2 blocks of marauders, 1 block of marauder horse..
ended up a 12-8 loss. played avoidancehammer for half the game, fleeing across the board to get some chaff and letting the gnoblar hoarde get hit. however they did kill a block of marauders in combat, then overran into a level 2 of tzeench, won combat by 5!(3 ranks, charged and a wound, compaired to no wounds) however he passed the break test, they did then kill the wizard though.
game 3 vs O&G.
I didn't win this, the other guy's dice lost it.
giant charges 10 trappers put there to annoy and divert him. rolls to see what he does...jump up and down, falls over. next turn stands up, rols to see what he does, jump up and down, falls over! eventually gets killed by a fanatic. ended up nice bloody game, however his big block of black orcs with the general in were still alive, so only a 12-8 win to me. msu units do tend to die when hit by big units , so my army hemorrhaged points.
game 4 vs brets.
horrible match up. no iron guts to break the armour, multiple small units that got overrun by big lances. highlight of the game was the bretonian general getting into combat with general spangleshard, doing 4 wounds, wounding on 3s, i believe he rolled a 5 2x6s and a 3 to wound, so i got a 6+ ward against 1...failed, and then a 4+ ward against the next...passed! Followed by a big shout of WOOF! across the hall, the OG boys looking on knowingly and my opponent asking "does that now mean something bad happens?" oh yes, it means my GW general will get to hit you! (however then his horse hits, wounds on a 6 and i fail the armour save so I dont infact get to hit.
20-0ed.
ah well, at least I won a game!
I would just like to add my thanks to Ol for his sponsorship & the regular attendance of the OG Massive, I know its an awkward journey for you guys so I appreciate the effort.
As said a bit of wok on the comp, but I did like the size & overall power of the armies at 1600 without the lords, looked a lot more hammer with less hero.
Improvements for next year, I think game 1 needs to be slightly longer as time is lost setting up & generally shaking of the cobwebs.
Also the Landlord told me that I can use the barbecue & we can cook food on it, so for about £1.50 a head we can get a barbie going at lunchtime, he even offered free camping in the field should anyone be mad enough to want to come up the night before.
See you soon
Mark
Thanks to everyone over the weekend... Had a great time! Bit tired, drunk and emotional towards the end but tends to be how I roll at tournaments these days!
My tournament points are really wrong though, been cheated out of a few I think! :(
Genuinely sad we won't see Lord Spangleshard in the new Ogre book!!! Woof!!!!!!!
Apart from the spearmen deathstar and the 2 chariots the list jack wrote me was truely awful! How I managed to escape with 2 wins and a 9-11 in the worst match up ever I'll never know... Maybe I'm ok at this afterall!!!
Quote from: khaosgoblin on September 05, 2011, 09:11:43 am
Also the Landlord told me that I can use the barbecue & we can cook food on it, so for about £1.50 a head we can get a barbie going at lunchtime,
This sounds great. Food was a let down but unfortunately it's the locations fault rather than yourselves.
Quote from: khaosgoblin on September 05, 2011, 09:11:43 am
free camping in the field should anyone be mad enough to want to come up the night before.
this could end badly...
Or brilliantly!
Camping sounds a winner, will the bar be open on the Friday night, and the hall for some practise games (if set up by then?)
Hi Ol, the bars open yes, there was a kids party this year so we could not set up til 9
I was going to see how much the friday would cost anyway & see how may are up for it, about half a dozen of us gamed on the friday last year.
A friend of mine's parents still live in Yardley...
Friday night wargaming and camping sounds awsome!!! Throw in a BBQ on the Friday night and for Saturday lunch and we may have one of the best social events.
MKM
Many thanks to Jimbo for lending me his models for this, much appreciated. Basic idea was no magic: just CHARGE! (and drop rocks on stuff.....that part didn't work so well)
List
• Paladin General: lance, shield, dragonhelm, gauntlets of the duel, dawnstone
• Paladin bsb: wyrm lance, shield, gromril great helm
• 11 realm full command standard of discipline
• 11 realm full command
• 11 errant full command
• 5 errant muso
• 12 skirmish archers muso and brazier
• 4 peg knights muso
• Treb
Game 1 vs Mohammed with his comedy list swap beasts
Early doors mohammened definitely out deployed and out manoeuvred me. I Spannered up deploying my treb pesants and peg knights so I was unable to stop the scouting harpies and shaman from getting round me and beating up the treb on the right flank t2. The peg knights spent the whole game ineffectively chasing and failing to catch the shaman due to my poor positioning. Meanwhile he set up a large trap between two bits of impassable terrain with using the big block of gor to anvil and absorb the lance charges with chariots and some centigor set up to counter charge in my flanks if I stuck. On the other open flank the minators and some centagor were coming round to put pressure on me with only my 5 little errant to slow them up.
Instead of ramming into the blocks I declared 3 11" charges into the chariots, one failed, one he fled, but he held with his generals chariots vs a block of realm and the bsb. The little errant got a luck long charge into the flank of the minators as well. The plucky errant hit like champions and between them and their horses did 4 wounds which was pretty epic stuff. Minos fluffed their attacks back so they broke and got run down, allowing the errant to reform to face the centigor: open flank threat neatralised.
In the BSBs lance vs beast general combat he challenged and my BSB accepted, and managed to kill the chariot out from under the general (who did a wound back to the bsb). I won by miles on static res, broke his general, failed to run him down but overran into another chariot that had fled earlier killing it. This caused a wave of panic checks which all failed causing both blocks of gor and another chariot to flee off the board: effectively giving me the game. It was a bit silly. Rest was mop up. Onlything I failed to get was the harpies for the cost of treb and peasant bowmen: so 20-0. Mo took the panics like a champ and kept in the game so my thanks for that. Definite case of list and luck over skill and judgement if I'm honest.
Game 2 vs High elves. Lv2 fire, foot bsb, 14 archers, block of spearmen, 20 white lions, lion chariot, 2 tiranoc chariots, 5 shadow warriors, two eagles
I went into this slightly worried about the white lions as I've seen what they do to Bretts before but I wasn't that fussed about the rest of the list, so was confident being able to make something of this. He deployed very defensively, basically base lining everthing apart for the archers who inched into range, and putting his eagles and shadow warriors out to block and hunt the treb.
Chaff clearance which I though wouldn't take that long ended up being a nightmare, including baby errant getting smacked about in combat by the shadow warriors, so the bsb lance hand to turn around and come save them by wyrmlance flaming the shadow warriors and saving the treb from an eagle. The peg knights got into the archers but flaming sword in combat ment that eventually they got beaten with just the champion fleeing on one wound, despirately trying to rally and hid behind some terrain whilst getting shot for the rest of the game. Despite epic failing against t3 no armour elves at least the git didn't die and give away any vps. In the centre the use of other eagles and chariots meant I just couldn't commit as everytime I went for something it his ran out the way and he threatened my exposed flank with other chariots. In the end I got the shadow warriors and eagles and the treb did its one hit of the torny and got a chariot t6 and he massive fireballed off the skirmishing archers and that was it; 12-8 to me. Very frustrating that chaff clearance took far too long and far too many units tied up doing it so I couldn't have a go at actually fighting his army. But a wins a win in the end.
Game 3 vs empire, Warrior priest general with armour of m and a GW, foot bsb, mounted captain, lv1 fire mage, 9 knights, two units of handgunners, big block of spears, militia and halberdier detachments, cannon, mortar, STEAM TANK!!!!
Really nice guy with list and models that were clearly from a 5th/6th edition empire army. But lots of shooting which didn't look good! I insinuated that my general paladin had Heroic killing blow so the steam tank went and hid off to one flank rather than parking in front of my lances which I was very happy about! First turn his artillery epic failed including 4 1s to wound with the cannons. He also shoved his knights and mounted captain right up which was a massive error as the pegs got into one flank and my general's lance into the other flank. Unsurprisingly I beat them up and the pegs ran them down whilst the general block reformed to face his battle line. T3 I did epic set of charges with pegs into mortar with over run into cannon, general's block into halberdiers, errant into militia with overrun into hand gunners, and bsb into spear block with bsb and general. Milita got rolled and into gunners, halbadiers got chopped up and I reformed to face flank of spears, BSB killed warrior priest in a challenge, knights killed bsb and loads of spears so I won by miles but he held on a steadfast 7.
The tank meanwhile was messing around with the last surviving member of the baby errant, his wizardblew up taking here block of handgunners with her.
Eventually I killed everthing apart from the tank which got lance after lance rammed into it, I chipped off 4-5 wounds but couldn't kill it, but still one 20-0. I lost the baby errant and that was all. Real mismatch of luck as basically everything went to plan for me whilst he rolled simply so many 1s it was ridiculous. Great guy though and got my vote for best sports (which apparently he reciprocated despite basically getting run over!)
Game 4 on the heady high of t2 surrounded by a lot of abject filth and I got the ok match up of khorne warriors. I was somewhat drunk at this stage so my memory of the game and his list is poor.
On the left my baby and big errant and peg knights smashed up and ran down a unit of khorne warriors with halberds (though too rather nasty casutalties to do it), then ended up in a lot of trouble with a horde of 40 GW khorne marauders, nearly broke them but eventually got ground down and they caught the peg knights t6 with a 10" charge (which irritated me).
on the right my two realm lances were in a difficult sitation of being blocked up by redirecting warhound chaff (which would have be stupid to charge) with chosen, knights and a tooled bsb behind. I just kept backing up hoping for the left flank stuff to come round and help, while he kept throwing massive fireballs and flame cage at me (which did bugger all). In the end he charged in his bsb into the general lance, challenged the unit champion, it was handbags at dawn for two rounds (including some epic ward saves where I made 5/5 in one round!) till he lost by a few and popped. The chaos knights came in T6, fluffed epically and did no damage, I killed a few and won on static, and he broke and got run down. This a gave me a 12-8 win. If the peg knights hadn't got caught at the end by the marauders I would have got a 14-6, and jumped into second place. As it was despite winning I was too far behind the leaders and came in a perfectly respectable 4th.
So undefeated, got a couple of T1 charges, and didn't get shot to pieces so I'm very happy. Overall I was very impressed by the bretts. The high armour and wardsave makes them a bugger to shift, and the epic fast movement and long charges is a really dynamic feel. At this points level the were very strong, especially as I'd go for loads of knights, people didn't really have the tools. No magic wasn't an issue as I just got fire mages who could lob fireballs at me all day and I wasn't that fussed. Really winners of the list was 5 baby errant: the best (if expensive) chaff in the game as they were so survivable and also could bit. Basic knights were really good too (when I wasn't spannering to hit rolls: dark elves have spoiled me in that regard). Fails were the treb: I hate scatter and misfire dice. Peasant bowmen were meh, a little useful but not great. Peg knights I just need to use better: great on the flanks and amazing vs the empire getting the war machines pronto. The vanguard was useful for reacting to scouts as well.
All in all I think it was a great little event, good tables and scenery, great opponents, cheap booze and 4 good games. Many thanks to Mark for sorting it all out: it ran very well in my opinion.
Comp: if I'm honest I didn't face anything too bad (the khorne warriors were mean but that was a matchup rather than comp thing and it was top tables), but some of the deamon armies looked revolting. The dark elves too were scary (who the hell takes metal magic!). The only thing I would say is ban dwarfs. In a small fun one day event the absolute negative play style just looked horrendous: no one who played the dwarf players sounded like they had any fun at all.
certainly agree, infoact I think i said to someone as we walked past the BBQ that BBQ and warhammer would make a fantatic combo!
Only thing would be I know people were playing football, is there a changing room? otherwise the stench by the end of saturday might be unbearable!
Quote from: sainthale1988 on September 05, 2011, 01:33:22 pm
Comp: if I'm honest I didn't face anything too bad
that might be beacause you had a bret army...who are horrible at low points games!
Now that I've recovered somewhat from my trip to the Church yesterday (this one has beer and strippers, all churches should :thumbsup:), I just wanna say I had a great time, despite backing up from a massive Friday night, sleeping through my alarm and having to drive up, when Ol finally woke me with a txt at 7:30...which left me feeling like I'd been hit by truck.
The Daemon list Mo wrote for me was completely left field, and alot of fun to play with. MSU 20" movement ftw!! I actually think I might take a version of it to Valhalla. Adding in Bloodthirster can only be a good thing, right? Just have to make sure Screamers are only units of 3, otherwise as I found out, you can never find them a place to land, so they can't actually do anything...
Also: Best Army Votes: Tom Hale Bretonians 1
lol, who was this blind monkey???!!!! :))
Finally, I was gonna avoid this one, but I just wasted a morning getting screwed over by Health and Safety BS so I really need this.
/RANT
I don't get Dwarves. What a pointless waste of an armybook... I'm sorry, but you don't move, you don't cast, you don't get into combat, so all thats left is rolling some dice and watching your opponent remove models, or you both sit in opposite corners and have a 30minute draw... How the !@%$#%@ is that an entertaining way to spend a day?? :bash;m: It's not like that hobby-killing army even has a chance to win a tournament either, which I could at least understand. Its just mind-boggling... I can't even see how GW can fix this either, without Dwarves losing their identity, just give them the Squat treatment please, and we can all move on.
RANT OVER!
Quote from: Meals on September 05, 2011, 01:41:20 pm
Also number 2: Best Army Votes: Tom Hale Bretonians 1
lol, who was this blind monkey???!!!! :))
/RANT
I don't get Dwarves.... just give them the Squat treatment please, and we can all move on.
RANT OVER!
yeah i don't know! might of been the other brett player who really liked your mounted mage.
re dwarfs: ace! i agree so much :thumbsup:
Dude someone voted for my army!
It is the epitome of dipped and rushed painting! clearly 40 gnoblars in a hoarde makes an impact!
@jim + tom: challenge accepted!
Next one dayer, I'll take a fun dwarfs list, using my chaos dwarfs! (Double gyrocopter?)
Quote from: maelzch on September 05, 2011, 02:32:02 pm
@jim + tom: challenge accepted!
Next one dayer, I'll take a fun dwarfs list, using my chaos dwarfs! (Double gyrocopter?)
Comped!!! That's double rare!!! :)
And is proof why a flat "no double rares ban is silly"
There wasnt a flat double rare ban, it was no double rare costing 100 points or more each, so I guess that did catch the gyro
Mark
Can I take double gyro to the next one? (Taurus and llamasu for my 'chaos' dwarfs)
Quote from: maelzch on September 05, 2011, 04:18:35 pm
Can I take double gyro to the next one? (Taurus and llamasu for my 'chaos' dwarfs)
Oh go on then, im sure it wont break the game :cry: