Sheffield Slaughter 2012 - 28/29th Jan

[Chris Legg]

The plot thickens!

Haha, anyone would think it was only toy soldiers!

Basically, Ant and Andy are typical brothers, both exceptionally competitive and it shows whenever they compete against each other. Sadly, this time, there just happened to be a tournament win on the cards. I am not saying what Ant did was right, but honestly it was not all one way traffic in the game.

[fatolaf]

Marcus asked if he could and would think about it, so I think others saying they have are pulling your leg.

Marcus wanted you to dock him, I think you tried to talk him out of it and a combo of his hangover may have led to confusion.
Real shame there then, only met one player who said he was okay to play against..
Shame only some people seemed to know how to dock sports...

I'm afraid if I see him in attendance at future slaughters , I won't attend...

To be fair I have lost any interest in events until the comp in general gets much much harder..So many bad match ups now in this game where one player has only a draw to aim for..

Don't get me wrong Leggy, I think you ran a good event as per usual, this was players faults not the events ..

[Crompton]

Didn't actually realise it was like that with Ant and Andy, only having what Andy said to go on. Its weird as I've seena fair few of Andy's games and on the whole they have seemed very fun and good natured, I guess they really bring out the worst in each other. Thanks for clearing it up Leggy :-)

The fact Keith wanted to dock me the full 6 marks really irks me. Especially when I asked him why he said "wasn't anything regarding your demeanour, it was the army and the frustration of not even playing a game, it ruined my chances of getting anywhere near the top." Last time I ever buy him a beer.

[Viruk]

1. Ant did not dock Andy points simply to finish ahead of him. They both knew that Andy was ahead on both tournament and painting points prior to the game and with a draw even with a sports hit Ant knew he would finished behind him.

First off Chris, Fantastic tournament. Really was the best run tournament I've been to and will alsmost certainly be attending next year as long as it doesn't clash with personal life. Everything was done very professioanly in my opinion. Even though I had my lowest ever tournament placing I got a lovly trophy out of it.

As to the sports issue. From what I gather Ant and Andy finished on the same Tournament points from gaming. Andy though was 2 points ahead on painting points though. So potentially (not saying this is why he did it but it could be a reason) if Ant gave Andy a 2 points sport hit, Ant would still be in the running for 1st place. Turns out he wouldn't have won it anyway on VP's. Of course this doesn't factor in the sports hit that Ant got that he couldn't know about.

So I'm not saying Ant did give the sports hit just to stay in with a chance of winning the tournament but it could be a factor. And as you say the game did seem to be bad tempered so it could be a genuine sports hit.

[Andy Spiers]

At no point were me and Ant going to fight, Leggy, and I never accused him of cheating through out the game. However, he accused me of cheating when I made two honest mistakes, 1 was saying the wrong stonethrower (I always fire my weakest stonethrower first, but for some reason I fired my stronger one first, then said the same warmachine to fire) but was corrected before any dice were rolled, the other was forgetting that ogres stopped cannon balls. The fact that Ant called me a "gamey !@%$#%@" for getting a single extra hammerer to get a supporting attack because of the Dwarf lord on shieldbearers double base was not on, moaning throughout the game for average artillery, neither was his arguementitive  and unpleasant nature during the game, instantly jumping on any small mistake, claiming I was cheating as if the sky was falling down. If I was cheating, surely you or he would have pulled me up on it, which never happen - ergo, I didn't cheat. Making mistakes is not cheating - as you said to me after the game.

I never once banged my fist, raised my voice, or got arsey with him during the game, even though I had good cause to. The closest I got was when I told him to sit down and stop being an arse after he jumped up about stone thrower.

I am not overly competitive in the slightest as anyone who has played me will know and will testify. I was, would I be playing Dwarfs?

As for the discussion about the pursuit in to fresh enemy, that was a misunderstanding on my behalf, and even when I was trying to talk to you about it, so I can get it right in my head, Ant was very abrupt in the way he told me to "shut the !@%$#%@ up, get on with the game, and stop arguing with the ref's decision".

Ant once said that I would never place higher than him, never podium at an event with dwarves, and that he would win Sheffield without a problem. When we were discussing how we might have done ourselves out of a podium with our draw, we discussed what points we were on. Ant knew that I was 2 points ahead on paints, and funnily enough, he docked me 2 points. Its not the fact that he cost me the win, its the fact that he would dock me the points just so he could try and place higher than me (which he still wouldn't have done due to VP's, even if he wouldn't have been hit with sports afterwards).

Even if I had been a dick throughout the game, I would expect a friend, never mind my brother, to take to me to one side and ask what was that all about, and discuss it with me, not go up to the TO and ask for me to docked points. Its the first time I have ever been docked points for Sportsmanship since starting to attend tournaments over 6 years ago.

I have no intention of ever having anything else to do with my brother over this, especially as it has opened my eyes to everything that I have defended him over the past 6 years of not being like.

Finally, Leggy, I dont appreciate you going onto a forum and saying things that are not true, claiming that they are the truth. If you really thought that that was the worst game of warhammer you have ever seen, then why didn't you say something about it during the game, after the game, or when I talked to you after the event had finished?

Thanks for reading.

A

[Chris Legg]

If you say so Andy. All I'm saying is that I've seen ETC games involving Greeks and Spainiards with less agitation going on at the table.

As I said above, I am not saying it was in any way mainly your fault for the game. And I meant what I said afterwards- that mistakes dont instantly mean cheating, but your brother evidently thought that you were and said this at several points. Whether he was correct or not is another matter, but that was clearly his perception of the incidents.

I didnt say you were overly competitive, I said you were typical brothers and in that you are competitive, whether you want to believe it or not. Not that this is even a bad thing in my opinion, as almost all of the most succesfull people in this world are exceptionally competitive. I would be exactly the same with my brother, no doubt about it.

Was he right? In my opinion, no, but its not my opinion on whether someone is cheating that counts when it comes to sportsmanship issues.

Re the two points- do you honestly not think that if he wanted to make certain he would simply have gone for the full 3 points off, rather than risk it on VP's?

[Raffazza]

Real shame there then, only met one player who said he was okay to play against..

Not to "defend the indefensible" (as it sounds like your game vs gary was beyond terrible), but there is a long list of people I could point to who have enjoyed playing him before (maybe he was being a waac'er at this event though).
Sorry to bring it up again Ol, but he is really gutted about it (he really is a lovely bloke - hmmm sounding like I am defending a naughty pet here... ). Think with you and Wayne he may have gone hyper-borg as you are both such big names in the hobby.

Guess reason I bring this up is that public character smackdowns are a bit harsh - there are a LOT of players far better known than Gary  (tournament "celebrities" even - I wont name names as not my place)  on the scene who have given a lot of players torrid times/spoilt tournamnets, but they are accepted as almost institutions.


But anyway - Chris, hope you're not too put off by the odd disturbing story coming from it, vast majority of the feedback I've heard of the event was incredibly positive, and am gutted had to pull out.

[Meals]

Its weird. I wasn't there for any of his tournament games during the weekend, but I played Gary on the Friday night and had a good challenging game. Gary's not exactly gonna be winning any best sports trophies as hes a fairly quiet person but I have no problem with that. Not everyone is an entertaining outgoing person. Didn't see this coming though!

I guess the question is: What do you expect from your opponent during a game of Warhammer?

All I personally ask is that he doesn't cheat, and doesn't bitch and moan too much/get angry during game. Anything else is fine by me.

[Viruk]

My friend Marcus Lake said playing Gary was one of the worts games he's ever played. Not just about attitude but also the fact that he was trying to cheat. Supposedly he was doing some major time wasting near the last rounds since he was getting beaten. Of course this is what I've been told so can't confirm it for 100% but since Marcus won the game in the end I can't see why he would lie.

Of course sometimes personalities just clash. I've played players that I've had bad games against such as Chris Tamplin who a lot of players say is terrible to play against. But I've also met people who have given him Best Sports points and said they had an sediment game against.

[Crompton]

All I personally ask is that he doesn't cheat, and doesn't bitch and moan too much/get angry during game. Anything else is fine by me.

Yup, to me this is the minimum requirement for a game. Sure I'd love a brilliant game but that cannot happen everytime.